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Official Rapid Rewards 2.0 speculation thread

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Official Rapid Rewards 2.0 speculation thread

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Old Jul 7, 2008, 10:15 am
  #46  
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The challenge WN faces is that to bring in international partners they really need to change the earning model from free tickets to some type of stored credit system. Having to use two awards for an ATA ticket to Hawaii and now two Standard Awards for a Freedom Award worked okay before, but only because there were only a couple of options.

Honestly, I think they're doing they're homework on other options, but in the end the program will not be so radically changed, the points will be similar to what we see now (though I would expect greater usage of quarter points potentially), but we'll be able to bank them for different awards instead of accumulating awards automatically as happens now.
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 11:13 am
  #47  
 
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So, probably not going to change me much. I fly based on price almost exclusively, and SWA does it about best.
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 11:44 am
  #48  
 
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Just changed a ticket today. I LUV the no-change fee and I can not see while the other carriers cant do the same
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 5:34 pm
  #49  
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I think people may be overanalyzing the $$ vs. points in the survey. It may be that there is no intent at all to have a sliding scale program, but instead they're trying to give a range of responders a range of tradeoffs to get a more accurate estimate of how much people value today's 1 RR credit, and how much they value other new perks such as guaranteed better boarding passes without waiting for T-24.

I know I don't buy BS fares for the extra .25 (I don't fly WN on routes long enough to qualify for the 2 points for BS). I don't even buy BS fares for the exit row, although it's a nice bonus when it happens - I usually end up in 14 through 16 C. I buy BS fares over Anytime fares because I know I'll get an aisle seat, and I don't have to worry about remembering to check in early. So, we've proven that I'm willing to pay $15 for that, just like I'm willing to buy-up to an exit row for $15-$20 when I occasionally fly Northwest or AirTran.

But is it really $15, or is it $20? That's what I think Southwest is trying to find out with this exercise.
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 1:47 pm
  #50  
 
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Not a direct RR item, but what if WN expanded A-list by expanding the windows for credit earning flights from 12 months to 18 or 24 months? This would give more A list positions to their more frequent flyers (who probably already get an A position by doing 24 hr OLCI) and push others who haven't earned A-list to purchase BS if they wanted boarding prioirty.

Even for those with devalued points under the new system, this would still give incentive to fly over a legacy where you may get an undesirable assigned seat or at a minimum some boarding group number that only John Nash would be able to determine the logic behind.
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 5:16 pm
  #51  
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Profitable passengers, fairness, etc.

Originally Posted by nsx
With banked points closely linked to the dollar price of trips you can redeem for, it becomes harder for Congress and the IRS to ignore the program for tax purposes. The program described looks more similar to a cash rebate than to a traditional frequent flyer program. I hope Southwest has carefully considered this aspect!
I haven't looked it up, but my guess is such a change, were it to happen, could possibly cut the other way. When you go to Home Depot and accept 10% off your bill for applying for their store credit card that is probably not taxable income. When you take advantage of a "buy three, get one free" sale at the tire store that is probably not taxable income My understanding is those examples are not taxable income because they are treated as a purchase price adjustment between the buyer and the seller. The same reasoning might extend to a case where an airline award program was structured so as to effectively yield a nearly-flat percentage "rebate" to the passenger.

Moving on to other issues discussed in this thread, several posts have mentioned profitability and the idea that the most profitable passengers should be rewarded the most. I fear that in this regard revenue and profit are not being adequately viewed as distinct concepts. Profit for an enterprise is a concept that is easy to understand and a number that is calculated fairly easily. Allocating total profit amongst individual passengers is far more complicated than just looking at how much each passenger paid, how far they flew, or any combination of those two. Let's look at some numbers from the financial statements and then examine some hypothetical scenarios that should demonstrate why.

For FY 2007 the WN load factor was reported (pdf) to be 72.6%; with that load factor, operating income was $791 million. Over 27.3 billion seat miles were not filled by revenue butts. At average fares, that represents missed revenue opportunities of $3.573 billion. Incremental costs would be minimal (a bit more fuel, snacks, paper & ink for boarding passes not printed at home, labor at check-in, baggage handling, and the gates, etc.). For simplicity suppose those costs would have been $0.573 billion. That means those additional passengers would have bumped profit up from $791 million to $3.791 billion. Stated another way, the revised profit would be 80% attributable to those new-found passengers. Of course wasted seats are always a big issue and we can't presume we could sell them all for the average ticket price. Suppose instead that WN had a system where it could sell every empty seat on a space-available basis for $12 over direct variable costs (DVC). The assumption above about $0.573 billion DVC is totally made up but it implies $17 DVC for each additional PAX, so the fare would be $29). Ignoring practicalities and issues like cannibalism of the existing revenue stream, filling those empty seats with (DVC + $12)/pop butts would boost system-wide profit by over 50%. Under a concept whereby award points are issued in proportion to profit, the folks who paid (DVC + $12) would "deserve" to be awarded a full 1/3 share of all award points given out for all flights. If you wouldn't like a system like that, you shouldn't be in favor of a system that attempts to award points to the most "profitable" passengers, and you shouldn't argue that points should be awarded in proportion to price from a fairness perspective. Of course the average passenger doesn't view the issues in this way, so marketing issues will of necessity outweigh fairness issues.

We can look at another example that is not so outlandish. Suppose each flight carries 80 PAX who paid the average $100 fare, 10 PAX who bought too late and had to pay $140; and 10 PAX who scored a DING! for $60., for total revenue of $10,000. Further suppose profit was $600. If the PAX who scored the great DING! are discretionary travelers who would not have flown if they had to pay $100, then the flight would have earned zero profit without the 10 DING! flyers. It wouldn't be practical to only issue award points to those 10 passengers, so it seems futile to attempt to base an award system on how much profit each passenger contributes to the mix.

The short-haul versus long-haul debate probably gets even more complicated. Costs and revenue are always reported per mile, but you can't just say the passengers who pay more per mile are more profitable. Some costs are fixed, some vary with miles, some vary with time. It takes more hours per mile to fly short-haul routes, so fares per mile have to be higher to cover the costs. But as noted in another post, short-haul flyers pay dramatically more per mile for their air travel, quite possibly more so than is justified by the operating expense difference. I have nowhere near enough data (or time) to try to calculate that.

As a partial substitute for identifying the most profitable passengers, WN could award bonus points to folks on sold-out flights. To be fair and/or as a token of goodwill, they could also try to give bonus points to those who paid an average or even above-average fare but but received a below-average service in return. Taking a middle between two strangers would seem to qualify. Again, practicalities would interfere with implementation. Awarding bonus points to "C" group boarders would be another way to go, and that would take some of the pressure off the rush to be first for OLCI. So again once we try to throw concepts of fairness into the awarding of "loyalty points, things can get awfully messy.
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 8:19 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by ftnoob
As a partial substitute for identifying the most profitable passengers, WN could award bonus points to folks on sold-out flights. To be fair and/or as a token of goodwill, they could also try to give bonus points to those who paid an average or even above-average fare but but received a below-average service in return. Taking a middle between two strangers would seem to qualify. Again, practicalities would interfere with implementation. Awarding bonus points to "C" group boarders would be another way to go, and that would take some of the pressure off the rush to be first for OLCI. So again once we try to throw concepts of fairness into the awarding of "loyalty points, things can get awfully messy.
I've often thought similarly and believe that it would generate lots of goodwill for very little cost if each flight crew was given the ability to, say once per month or quarter, give out a 0.25RR "Share the LUV token" to anyone on a flight who does something particularly nice for other passengers. Things like giving up your prime window seat and moving to 28B so that a family to sit together, waiting to deplane so that somebody else who has to can exit in time to catch their connection..acts of courtesy one never sees anymore. To eliminate chicanery the token would require some proof you were actually on the flight like your confirmation number, RR number or boarding pass stub.
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 9:24 pm
  #53  
 
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I went back and reread this entire thread, looking for comments on two issues that have recently appeared on my radar screen. I will qualify for a Companion Pass by October. When I do, I will probably be letting a RR Award expire and keep it "available for future reissue", rather than "burn" it on my companion.

My questions for both previous commenters and not yet heard from.

1. Thoughts on changes to the Companion Pass program. Would it go away, be grandfathered until it expires, or changed?

2. Will expired awards be permanently expired, no longer available for reissue.

3. What will happen to valid RR awards with expiration dates beyond the new changes effective date.
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Old Jul 29, 2008, 7:09 am
  #54  
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Wow, NSX

You have an interesting argument, and load factor/yield are two of many traditional means of measuring an airline's health. While using standby pax to fill up flights gets rid of the overbooking problem, which is one of the issues with high load factors--high 70s and above. There's one thing you may not have considered when it comes to "topping off" flights with incremental income. The load factor is a systemwide average. Flights between A and B may operate at an 85% LF, while flights between C and D have a 45% LF. Bill Owen has written about our optimized schedules to cull out poor performing flights, but the demand, even for low cost standby travel has to be there. It's like the Antiques Roadshow. An appraiser may say an item is worth $1,500, but you have to have two people at an auction who want to buy that item. Obviously, there would be costs in carrying standby passengers. Ticketing and processing them would take money, additional fuel or possible offloaded cargo to accommodate them is another cost, it takes time during the boarding process to handle standbys. So you would have to set a standby fare at a level to recoup these costs and to make a profit. The danger is that this fare, even for standby, might be higher that the travelers in the market would pay for low demand service. Summing up, you can't always lower fares enough to stimulate demand and still generate a return. But, there are some cases where you could. I just don't know if opening all of these cans of worms is the right step. I will certainly share this thread with our Leaders, though
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Old Aug 1, 2008, 10:52 am
  #55  
nsx
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Originally Posted by irabk
I went back and reread this entire thread, looking for comments on two issues that have recently appeared on my radar screen. I will qualify for a Companion Pass by October. When I do, I will probably be letting a RR Award expire and keep it "available for future reissue", rather than "burn" it on my companion.

My questions for both previous commenters and not yet heard from.

1. Thoughts on changes to the Companion Pass program. Would it go away, be grandfathered until it expires, or changed?

2. Will expired awards be permanently expired, no longer available for reissue.

3. What will happen to valid RR awards with expiration dates beyond the new changes effective date.
1. CP program will continue very much as it is under the proposal I saw.

2. Expired awards will likely be reissued as a fixed amount of points, in the mid range of redemption. Note to SWABrian: I highly recommend that Southwest provide at least 30 days' notice before stopping reissuance of standard awards as such.

3. RR awards will be valid under their current terms until they expire. Anything else would be a retroactive change, IMHO.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 11:46 pm
  #56  
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Last night I dumped a bunch of MR points to RR. I did this because WN has a history of 1) not giving enough notice or any notice on RR changes and 2) any changes WN has put forth has been good for WN, not the customers.

While I spend a good number of $$ on WN short haul flights (flights that are WNs Bread and Butter) and do see value, I dont want to be caught off guard.
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 7:53 am
  #57  
nsx
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Originally Posted by cxn
Last night I dumped a bunch of MR points to RR. I did this because WN has a history of 1) not giving enough notice or any notice on RR changes and 2) any changes WN has put forth has been good for WN, not the customers.
When did RR change without notice? I must have been asleep or something, because I don't recall it. No-notice changes are Carlson's specialty, and now Choice's.

Changes almost never increase the value of FF programs. WN has made an effort to throw us a bone when devaluing the program, notably by extending expiration of credits to 24 months. If you can show me when other programs have made changes that increased their value to customers, I'm all ears. I can't recall it ever happening.
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 9:38 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by nsx
When did RR change without notice? I must have been asleep or something, because I don't recall it.
What was the notice for $50 renewal of expired RR awards dropping from anytime to max 2 years after expiration? I'm sitting on a years-old award that became useless to me because I didn't realize that change was coming up. As such, I've lost much more value from Southwest's one (even if only) unannounced change than I have from Choice's unannounced changes. (Btw, the latest change at Choice -- requiring CC or stay for all transfers out, was announced ahead of time.) And, in fact, I may have lost more from Southwest's one (even if only) unnaounced change than I have from Carlson's (given that my timing was such that one month announcement still wouldn't have helped me save more than that one lost RR "freedom award" would have.
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 11:55 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by sdsearch
What was the notice for $50 renewal of expired RR awards dropping from anytime to max 2 years after expiration? I'm sitting on a years-old award that became useless to me because I didn't realize that change was coming up.
Are you sure it's not recoverable? Did you write a letter and ask, enclosing your $50 check? If you have the old ticket number, I'd give you an excellent chance of success.
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 2:06 pm
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by sdsearch
What was the notice for $50 renewal of expired RR awards dropping from anytime to max 2 years after expiration? I'm sitting on a years-old award that became useless to me because I didn't realize that change was coming up.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that the reissuance of expired awards used to be an unpublished benefit. When they formalized it by adding support for it to the website, they made it a published benefit and set the 2-year expiration rule.
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