SDCA

^

Firewind

I must admit that this was precisely my first reaction and, in composing my diatribe, I flew right past it. It's looking like it's a generational thing.

Back to my diatribe, has this turned over a rock: That it is actually possible to buy two seats, and then it's up to a Southwest person airside to turn you down -- be it a GA, OA or FA? (In this case, on the authority of the Captain.)

Oooohhh, this would be sweet.....

Cholula

Not wishing to throw this thread off-topic but can someone explain the rationale for WN not being willing to sell multiple seats to a passenger regardless of that passengers motivation?

Firewind

At the risk of boring regulars on this board with my repeated rant, it's to prop up the "Business Select" scheme, which is to sell one seat for more than twice the base price. And to cast my response on a somewhat more positive footing, Southwest would fill "The Gap" (queue positions A1-15) easily if it allowed bundling two seats, for a premium, and calling it, oh, something like "Business Select". That would be a Business Class value proposition that would attract the business traveler, IMO. (And if you think about it, if Southwest marketed it cleverly, as "access to an empty middle seat" it could sell a center seat "twice" -- as the second seat for the two passengers in A and C, for example.)

kerflumexed

"NAAFA Calls for Boycott

The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance is calling for a Southwest
boycott. It issued a statement urging "people of size to seek out and travel
airlines that do not have such discriminatory policies.""

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naafanews/message/472

NWA747SNN

If the flight is not full, WN will refund the 2nd ticket to a "big guy/girl". If anyone could buy the extra room and not pay for it, then everyone would.

freeflyin

The rest of the flying public hopes that this works.

WN's COS policy is generous and more than fair IMHO. If you need a second seat,then buy it-if you choose not to,don't complain when you are denied passage.

Personally, I do not see why WN refunds the second seat if the plane is not full. All of us are entitled to 1 seat and cannot guarantee the seat next to us will be empty,why should a COS get more space for free just because there are empty seats?

kerflumexed

SWA stated that the COS policy had been in place for 25 years - this didn't seem correct to me.

Here is a quote from an article in 2006Told to buy 2 seats, Exeter woman sues Southwest, claims racial discrimination

"Garry Lane, a Southwest lawyer, said the airline’s “customer of size” policy, introduced in 2002 in response to “squished customer” complaints and safety concerns about evacuations, wasn’t written clearly at the time. Employees made some mistakes in explaining it, but did not act out of racial bias, he said.

The policy specifically didn’t require Thompson to buy a second seat after she was allowed to board, but employees mistakenly had told her that she had to, Lane said."

Jalinth

Kevin Smith is not a small guy. So I could see him needing the two seat policy. The GA sounds like they mishandled it or WN has system problems by not flagging 2 seat customers for special standby handling (meaning you need 2 free seats and must pre-board).

I don't see WN's policy as particular unfair or unreasonable. You buy two seats but get a refund if any free seats exist. Avoids very nasty scenes.

tusphotog

Good. Go fly United.

rwinn

I wonder if the AAFA has reviewed the policies of other carriers?

Interestingly, Smith (and other customers of size) may find the policies of United and other U.S. carriers to be somewhat less accommodating than Southwest's.

While Southwest allows the extra seat to be refunded if the flight wasn't oversold, United's policy encourages extra seats to be purchased in advance, but doesn't make any accommodation for refunds of the extra seat if there are open seats. The only mention of refunds is for the first seat for passengers who are unable to travel when no extra seats are available to be purchased on the day of departure:

---

Reservations
Passengers who wish to purchase an extra seat are strongly encouraged to contact United via phone at 1-800-UNITED-1 (1-800-864-8331). This will ensure that you receive two adjacent seats at the same fare. Our full-service reservations agents will be able to assist you with all your travel planning needs, and the standard $25 call center fee per ticket will be waived for this service in this case.

Availability
If purchasing on the day of departure and an additional seat or upgraded seat is not available on the ticketed flight, then the customer will be required to rebook on the next United flight that has adequate seating available. Any fees that would normally be associated with this type of change will be waived in this circumstance. If adequate seating is not available and the customer decides not to travel, the ticket can be refunded without penalty, even if it is a nonrefundable ticket.

---
(From United's "Passengers requiring extra space" policy at http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,52985,00.html)


So... Southwest's policy seems to have far less potential for embarrassment and lost money than United's. This could get interesting if people switch to other carriers expecting some kind of "better" treatment only to discover that their second seat isn't being refunded after taking flights with open space.

expert7700

I am not a COS ,but I feel the reimbursement policy is slightly unfair. SW says they issue refunds ~99% of the time because flights did not go out full+denied boarding to standbys. Yet to the infrequent traveller it can be a craps shoot with a 1-in-100 shot of getting stuck with NO refund at all. Anyone who believes 1 in 100 is nothing to worry about must not buy any daily number , lottery tickets, or play a slot machine.

Scenario 1: the policy results in me paying DOUBLE my planned budget/the southwest advertised price for the year, because I flew one round trip at $799 and had to buy a 2nd ticket at $799 which did not get refunded. Result: bad experience, I'll bash WN for being overpriced etc.

Scenario 2: as a freqent flyer, the policy costs me only 1% extra on top of my planned travel budget for the year, I flew 100 roundtrips at $799 each, and got all but one refunded.

My suggestion is that it's much more fair to issue COS passengers a 97-99% refund based on the OVERALL (quarterly, monthly etc) full+overook rate, that way they always get the blended average. Southwest ends up with the same $$ kept vs refunded in that case, and customers are treated a whole lot better without losing out for booking a full flight, and worrying if they will get a refund.

I feel a guaranteed refund in the 97-99% range is much more fair than a roll the dice and 1-3 times out of 100 come up completely empty handed.

COS passengers will feel good that SW is in effect sellling them their 2nd seat via mail-in-rebate for only a few dollars per trip. The mail-in-rebate helps result in breakage (AND since it requires a passenger fronting the $ for travel, it Helps a bit in detering abuse). The breakage could be used for either a higher refund % for passengers or a higher profit for WN. WN could sell advertising space on a flyer mailed with the reimbursement checks too. (likely rental cars, hotel offers, etc.

WN should also have a 'special seating needs' poster or handout, which points out needs for preboard, boarding with pets, and when to buy a 2nd seat (travelling with large instrument or COS). They could present this at the time of booking--there is already a spot for allergy info, assistance animal, etc why not put a link "do I need a 2nd seat? which when you mouse-over or click gives pointers on if they need to purchase a 2nd seat because the named passenger cannot comfortably sit in one seat with the armwrests down without encoraching at all into the space of the second seat.

DeaconFlyer

It seems like an airline that sends out 99% of its planes below capacity would be glad to have people purchase more than one seat.

Maybe that's why I'm not an airline CEO.

tusphotog

I believe (and hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that WN charges a COS the lowest fare for their second seat. So, if the lowest price in a market is $69, they'd pay ticket cost + $69.

N965VJ

Drop the F Bomb all over the interwebz? Stay classy, Kevin.


Some folks would see a “sizer seat” at the gate as humiliating.