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Delayed flight compensation with Singapore Airlines

Delayed flight compensation with Singapore Airlines

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Old Apr 10, 17, 10:32 am
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Delayed flight compensation with Singapore Airlines

I am trying to claim delayed flight compensation with Singapore airlines as I took a flight with them from Zurich to Bangkok (via Singapore) that in the end arrived more than 6 hours late.

After some initial lies that EC261/2004 was not applicable in my case as my ticket was issued in Bangkok, they changed their story, offered me a bottle of wine, and basically told me that:

As per our current understanding, for flights departing out of a city in Switzerland, passengers are not eligible for a compensation claim of EUR 600 resulting from a flight delay.

Nevertheless we always abide by the decision of Swiss FOCA with regards to application of EC261/2004 regulations. As part of the escalation process, where passengers are not satisfied by our decision on this topic, there is a form as attached below which you can fill up to escalate this matter to FOCA.

Upon FOCAís review, we will abide by their decision.


When reading EC261/2004 I only see that it explicitly includes Switzerland and Norway as well - does anyone have any experience with this, and/or knows the exact situation?

I will file the case with FOCA as they suggest - I am just surprised that they seem to be so stubborn.
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Old Apr 10, 17, 5:20 pm
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Had similar (ZRH-SIN-MEL), few years ago. No luck with SQ. FOCA did not seem to be way through either:
You sent the Federal Office of Civil Aviation FOCA an information concerning Regulation (EC) no 261/2004 as you think an airline breached this Regulation.

FOCA ensures the general compliance with this Regulation. Within an administrative offense against air carriers it could impose fines in case of proven infringements of this Regulation. The aim is to prevent infringements in the future.
Your individual claims are independent of that, e.g. the payment of compensation. FOCA is neither authorized to support you to enforce these claims according to the Regulation against the air carrier nor to give you legal advice in this respect. Individual claims have to be compensated within the scope of a legal relationship between passenger and air carrier, if necessary, by complaint proceedings and summary proceedings for order to pay debts in court.

FOCA is the competent authority for the implementation of Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 in Switzerland and deals with enforcement of passenger rights for all flights leaving a Swiss airport or coming in from third countries to Switzerland on Swiss/EU carriers. For passengersí convenience, Article 16, paragraph 2, provides for a possibility for complainants to submit claims against airlines to another National Enforcement Body than the one where the incident took place. But the authority which is competent for this complaint under the criteria of Article 16, paragraph 1 will still have to deal with investigation measures. If FOCA has to transfer a case you will be informed about it and receive all the address details. If you have questions to your case after a transfer you have to contact directly the responsible National Enforcement Body.

If you want us to check if there was an infringement of the Regulation we kindly ask you to fill in one FOCA form per person and per case. You can also fill in the EU complaint form and its attachment. Send it to:

FOCA
Passengerrights
3003 Berne
Switzerland


We canít accept incomplete forms, incomplete EU complaint form without FOCAís attachment and forms sent by E-mail or with no original signatures.

Besides you have to add a copy of your flight reservation(s) and a copy of your identity
card (NO ORIGINALS) as well as the correspondence with the airline. If you are the representative of the passenger we also need a procuration.

The complaint handling procedure takes until 6 months and if we have to involve legal proceedings it will take longer than 6 months until you will be informed about the final results.

Please let us know if you decide not to fill in a form by e-mail (
[email protected]). Thank you very much.


Federal Office of Civil Aviation
So, I tried to use flightright and they pulled out after while.
We would be happy to represent your air passenger rights in court as well. We intend to wait for a few test cases in order to have the best chance of success for a judicial enforcement.

Your particular case combination has so far not been sufficiently covered by high court judgments. Fortunately, our legal experts have identified some judicial test cases that have a similar situation to your experience and that are currently pending before competent courts and the European Court of Justice (ECJ). If these proceedings have a positive outcome and the legal situation is thereby clarified in your favor as well, we will take your case up again and take it to court. We would like to "park" your case until then.

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Old Apr 13, 17, 10:34 pm
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Originally Posted by herriebo View Post
I am trying to claim delayed flight compensation with Singapore airlines as I took a flight with them from Zurich to Bangkok (via Singapore) that in the end arrived more than 6 hours late.

After some initial lies that EC261/2004 was not applicable in my case as my ticket was issued in Bangkok, they changed their story, offered me a bottle of wine, and basically told me that:

As per our current understanding, for flights departing out of a city in Switzerland, passengers are not eligible for a compensation claim of EUR 600 resulting from a flight delay.

Nevertheless we always abide by the decision of Swiss FOCA with regards to application of EC261/2004 regulations. As part of the escalation process, where passengers are not satisfied by our decision on this topic, there is a form as attached below which you can fill up to escalate this matter to FOCA.

Upon FOCA’s review, we will abide by their decision.


When reading EC261/2004 I only see that it explicitly includes Switzerland and Norway as well - does anyone have any experience with this, and/or knows the exact situation?

I will file the case with FOCA as they suggest - I am just surprised that they seem to be so stubborn.
Just use EUClaim.

http://www.euclaim.co.uk/
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Old Apr 13, 17, 11:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Guy Betsy View Post
Just use EUClaim.

http://www.euclaim.co.uk/
If OP does, (s)he will get this:
Based on the flight details you have entered you are, in principle, entitled to compensation. However it is not possible for us to deal with your claim request, because your flight falls outside our geographical work area i.e. your flight did not touch the Netherlands, Germany, the UK or Belgium and/or you do not live one of these countries.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:01 am
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10 july 2019 - sq335 - cdgsin

Hi,

I'm allowing myself to bump this existing topic. Admin please feel free to close if it should rather open a new topic.

On July 10th 2019 we (4 pax - my wife and 2 kids of 7 & 9) were supposed to return to Singapore on SQ335 from CDG to SIN. We arrived at CDG at 9am to check-in. The flight was due to depart at 12noon.

We got boarding passes but the airlines didn't take any luggage as they were expecting delays due to a technical issue on the inbound flight (SQ336 operated on 9V-SKP).

At 10:15am they announced that the flight would be cancelled and offered everyone to move to the hotel, Since we had to be back in Singapore they managed to transfer us back to Singapore on the same day through LHR. We landed in Singapore with an 11 hour delay.
  • Is my understanding right that we are entitled to the EC261 compensation of 600 EUR / traveler since we arrived in Singapore with more than 4 hours delays ? If so should I try to claim myself or should I leave that to one of the many claiming providers in the EU ?
  • Despite searching I couldn't find success stories about SQ flyers that had successfully been compensated ?
  • It's not possible to get a flight disruption confirmation from SQ on their own site : https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/u...ht-disruption/
  • The SQ site also doesn't mention anything about European flights on their contingency plans page : https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/s...tingency-plan/
According to flightradar24 and to this date 9V-SKP is still in Paris. SQ sent a 772 to pick-up the remaining passenger. They left Paris with about 34 hours delay.

Appreciate your inputs ! Thank you !
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Old Aug 14, 19, 2:32 am
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Originally Posted by martin_paris View Post
Is my understanding right that we are entitled to the EC261 compensation of 600 EUR / traveler since we arrived in Singapore with more than 4 hours delays ? If so should I try to claim myself or should I leave that to one of the many claiming providers in the EU ?
Yes. It is up to you how you want to do it. But using a claiming service usually mean you have to pay.

Originally Posted by martin_paris View Post
Despite searching I couldn't find success stories about SQ flyers that had successfully been compensated ?
I am not surprised.

Originally Posted by martin_paris View Post
It's not possible to get a flight disruption confirmation from SQ on their own site : https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/u...ht-disruption/
SQ's IT is just so...

Originally Posted by martin_paris View Post
The SQ site also doesn't mention anything about European flights on their contingency plans page : https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/s...tingency-plan/
While required, it does not really matter as soon as you get your EUR600.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 7:56 pm
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In CDG SQ should have distributed the EC261/04 flyer or similar that informs passengers of their rights. It is mandated. A shamefully poor execution by the local station, deliberate or accidental oversight we leave aside, but also common across carriers which still doesn't make it right.

​File your claim with SQ, be persistent, this is rather clear cut from prior EU Court of Justice rulings, but possibly SQ will claim extraordinary circumstances which IMHO do not apply for mechanical issues as EU courts have ruled repeatedly.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 9:48 pm
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Hi,
Thanks to both for your comments.
@demue : the situation in Paris was extremely chaotic. There was litteraly only 1 pax who was able to transfer passengers to other flights and as you can imagine he had passports all over his desks and stressed passengers all around him. It took over 2 hours for him to get us on a new flight despite being third in row ... No EC261/04 or similar flyer was ever distributed.

Last question : would you recommend to file the complain with SQ in Paris or should I go directly to SQ here in Singapore ?
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:15 pm
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IMHO, if you can file in Paris they will be more familiar with the validity of the claim you are making. Here in SIN it may be a mixed bag, YMMV. Either way, expect a push back and some explanation that compensation is not applicable and be surprised if it turns out otherwise.

Also while we may feel sorry for the one staff handling the irrops, that is entirely under SQs control and those EU261/04 flyers are pre-printed and can just be handed out / made available accordingly.

Sure, airlines don't like the regulations and like to flaunt them (many do, not unique to SQ), but it is still the current applicable law.
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Old Aug 17, 19, 7:44 am
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Does anyone know what one's rights are in the case of SQ25 (New York - Frankfurt - Singapore) where the Frankfurt to Singapore leg is delayed significantly?

I am encountering such a delay at the moment and am surprised alternative flight re-routings have not been offered...just a case of "wait until this evening and we will see". In fact I am surprised by the lack of communication generally and no EU rights leaflets distributed or even mentioned - ground staff just say "SQ have not told us anything".

I would like to push for a re-route but I am I not clear if they will claim I am ineligible due to the first departure being from New York?
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Old Aug 17, 19, 6:45 pm
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Not sure if you are looking for re-routes via other carriers or another 1 stop routings. IIRC, SQ and LH next departure for FRA - SIN non-stop is the evening flight, which is around the same time that your SQ25 seems to be delayed to.

I was on a Germany domestic to FRA - SIN on LH, the domestic was delayed by <6 hours, but resulting in me missing the FRA - SIN on LH. I requested to change to SQ25 the next day (since I would not make both SQ and LH departures that night). LH's email claimed they have approved my EU261 claims recently, but I've yet to received the money. LH didn't tell me about the EU261 compensation either (reading at FT did). So yes, re-routing should still be eligible for EU261 claim.
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Old Aug 17, 19, 8:54 pm
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Originally Posted by jbfield View Post
Does anyone know what one's rights are in the case of SQ25 (New York - Frankfurt - Singapore) where the Frankfurt to Singapore leg is delayed significantly?

I am encountering such a delay at the moment and am surprised alternative flight re-routings have not been offered...just a case of "wait until this evening and we will see". In fact I am surprised by the lack of communication generally and no EU rights leaflets distributed or even mentioned - ground staff just say "SQ have not told us anything".

I would like to push for a re-route but I am I not clear if they will claim I am ineligible due to the first departure being from New York?
Your case is different. You are flying US to SIN on a non-EU carrier and hence no EU 261/04 applies to this case. The fact that it routes via FRA has no impact.

If you were booked JFK-FRA, stopover, FRA-SIN then it is a different story. In such a case your FRA-SIN would fall under EU261. Of course if you were on LH or another EU carrier any flight into, from or within EU would be covered. Not all are created equal here.
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Old Aug 18, 19, 5:29 am
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Originally Posted by demue View Post
Your case is different. You are flying US to SIN on a non-EU carrier and hence no EU 261/04 applies to this case. The fact that it routes via FRA has no impact.

If you were booked JFK-FRA, stopover, FRA-SIN then it is a different story. In such a case your FRA-SIN would fall under EU261. Of course if you were on LH or another EU carrier any flight into, from or within EU would be covered. Not all are created equal here.
I suppose that was/is my question; does EU261 apply or not in this situation? Regardless of where the passenger started their 'journey' surely the passenger is still 'departing' from Frankfurt, given the need to alight the aircraft and re-board (in yesterday's case it was alighting one aircraft and boarding another one, albeit a broken one). The legal wording is: "to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies; "

It is moot now as the estimated 9:30PM departure time was eventually confirmed at about 7:00PM and this part of the journey is now completed. At the time of the disruption and in the absence of information, my concern was whether it would turn into a creeping delay, with the backup options to get back to SIN before work-hours on Monday was getting limited (I saw FRA-DOH-SIN / FRA-BKK-SIN / FRA-IST-SIN as possible option or failing that, the next morning FRA-DUS-SIN and FRA-MUC-SIN that would arrive by 7am Singapore).

Last edited by jbfield; Aug 18, 19 at 5:53 am
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Old Aug 18, 19, 5:48 am
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You are each entitled to EC 261/2004 delay/cancellation compensation of EUR 600. In addition and all depending on when and where the delays took place, you may also be due reimbursement for reasonable properly-receipted meals (although you may have received vouchers or had lounge access).

1. There is no requirement of an EC 261/2004 "pamphlet." That requirement is satisfied by the smallish placards posted at various counters. In any event, whether the pamphlet is distributed has nothing to do with whether you are due compensation. A red herring not to be worried about.

2. You may certainly refer this to a claims agency. But, any agency will take 25-33% of the compensation. In this case, it will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of EUR 800 in fees taken from the compensation amount. That is an awful lot of money which could be yours.

3. All you need to do to file a request with SQ is to provide the passenger names, the PNR, e-ticket numbers (all four), particulars of your originally scheduled flight (date, flight number, departure and scheduled arrival) and then the details of your reroute. Make the observation that you were delayed at your final ticketed destination by more than 4 hours and are thus each due EUR 600. Ask to be contacted to arrange payment details.

SQ may assert that this was an extraordinary circumstance as a knock-on delay at an outstation and you may need to go back and forth several times. At some point you may refer this to a claims agency. But, not now.
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Old Aug 18, 19, 5:54 am
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Originally Posted by jbfield View Post
I suppose that was/is my question; does EU261 apply or not in this situation? Regardless of where the passenger started their 'journey' surely the passenger is still 'departing' from Frankfurt, given the need to alight the aircraft and re-board (in yesterday's case it was alighting one aircraft and boarding another one, albeit a broken one). The legal wording is: "to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies; "

It is moot now as the estimated 9:30PM departure time was eventually confirmed at about 7:00PM and this part of the journey is now completed. At the time of the disruption and in the absence of information, my concern was whether it would turn into a creeping delay, with the backup options to get back to SIN before work-hours on Monday was getting limited (I saw FRA-DOH-SIN / FRA-BKK-SIN / FRA-IST-SIN as possible option or failing that, the next morning FRA-DUS-SIN and FRA-MUC-SIN that would arrive by 7am Singapore).
No, the passenger's ticket is JFK-SIN. The ECJ has issued a series of rulings within the past 2 years, all in situations where this concept works to the passenger's benefit. It has found the connection point to be merely a technical or logistical part of scheduling and of no legal moment.

But, that is not OP's question. He is looking at reroutes and the answer is that he should not be passive about this. Do the research on alternatives and present them to the SQ staff, including flight numbers. One is far more likely to be rerouted on another carrier if the one makes a very specific request. Even under EC 261/2004, there is no requirement of a reroute on another carrier.

OP - Please do not fixate on the silly "pamphlet." As noted above, there is no such requirement and if it were handed to you, it would not change what happens. To be clear, SQ's posted signage takes care of providing individual pamphlets.
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