Since there are more and more discussions about food quality at Amanresorts, Four Seasons and other luxury resorts in Flyertalks Luxury Forum, I think it could be interesting to rate and rank them within the various chains. So in this thread, I would like to give you the possibilty to rank the food at our Luxury Hotel Favorites according to the following, very strict deer-criteria:

10 deerpoints: 3 Michelin star creativity & quality (according to your judgement)
9 deerpoints: 2 Michelin star creativity & quality
8 deerpoints: 1 Michelin star creativity & quality
7 deerpoints: highly creative food with spices you never tasted before
6 deerpoints: creative food with some real unique dishes
5 deerpoints: very good luxury-hotel food with real local spices
4 deerpoints: good luxury-hotel food with some local accents
3 deerpoints: standard luxury-resort food nicely presented
2 deerpoints: boring standard 5-star-hotel food with loveless presentation
1 deerpoints: untasty food with quality problems
0 deerpoints: real lousy food

Please be so nice and stick to that criteria - because at a top luxury hotel, you could expect to experience some really special and creative food, not just plain good quality. It means for example, if you had a perfectly made steak with fries or a very good fish, perfectly made like at your favorite non-gourmet hometown restaurant, then it's NOT 6 or 7 points, but - depending on the creativity of the rest of the menu! - only 3 to 4 deerpoints. From 6 points on, food must be really excellent, creative and unique - and local dishes must be cooked with real local spices, only moderated if you specifically ask for mild.

Always keep in mind: PLAIN GOOD FOOD MEANS 3 DEERPOINTS (not more!) - since at real luxury hotels, that's the minimum one should expect! In fact, I expect creativity, real local spices, real positive surprises. And no standardization / americanization / mildization of local spices.

Of course a hotel can get 10 points, if it has two or more restaurants and one serves good standard food, and one or two others really high creative, 3 Michelin star quality food, as does my winner FS Hongkong. Or, one star below, the 9 points for Aman at Summer Palace with it's fantastic Japanese-French Naoki restaurant, it's great Chinese restaurant and it's standard-quality The Grill. But on the other hand, a resort like Amanpulo with low quality Spanish food at Beach Club, very mediocre, americanized food at The Clubhouse only gets 1 point despite the nice lagoon club with it's tasty vietnamese cuisine, which would get 4 points, if the other restaurants were at least luxury standard...

(The pointage without brackets is my personal one, the pointage in brackets are the results from other contributors.)

FOUR SEASONS
10 deerpoints for FS Hong Kong (one of the best Chinese Restaurants worldwide with 3 Michelin stars, one French Restaurant with also 3 Michelin stars, everything else very high quality as well)
(8-10) deerpoints for Four Seasons George V, Paris.
8 deerpoints for FS Florence
8 (4) deerpoints for FS Istanbul Bosphorus
(8) deerpoints for FS New York
(8) deerpoints for FS Vancouver
(7) deerpoints for FS' RC Chicago
(7) deerpoints for FS Dublin
(6) deerpoints for FS Washington
(5) deerpoints for FS Marunouchi
4 (5) deerpoints for FS Chiang Mai
(4) deerpoints for FS Sultanahmet
(4) deerpoints for FS Langkawi
(3) deerpoints for FS Hampshire
(3) deerpoints for FS Nile Plaza
(3) deerpoints for FS Sharm-el-Sheikh
(2-9) deerpoints for FS Provence (9 for Faventia, 2 elsewhere according to Groombridge)
2 deerpoints for FS Sayan, Bali
2 deerpoints for FS Jimbaran, Bali
2 deerpoints for FS Singapore
(1) deerpoint for FS Tented Camp

AMANRESORTS
9 deerpoints for Aman at Summer Palace (fantastic Japanese-French restaurant Naoki, very good Chinese Restaurant)
8 deerpoints for Amanfayun (very, very special local style restaurants and the most special teahouse worldwide, all on premise)
7 deerpoints for Amantaka (please order the very fine and very special laotian meals!)
6 (4) deerpoints for Amanbagh
5 (3) deerpoints for Amanjiwo
5 (4) deerpoints for Amankora Paro
5 (4) deerpoints for Aman New Delhi
4 (3-5) deerpoints for Amandari
4 (4) deerpoints for Amankila
3 (5) deerpoints for Amanwana
3 (6) deerpoints for Amanyara
3 deerpoints for Amanpuri (very good Thai Restaurant, under par Breakfast, the Japanese-French Naoki restaurant has neither a Japanese Chef like the ones at Summer Palace and Aman New Delhi, nor could the cooking and the ingriedients reach the high quality of the Summer Palace Naoki)
3 (5) deerpoints for Amanusa
(2) deerpoints for Amangiri
(1) deerpoint for Aman-i-khas
1 deerpoint for Amanpulo (low quality Spanish cuisine at Beach Club, mediocre & americanized food at The Clubhouse, but nice Lagoon club with very tasty vietnamese cuisine. Generally no local fresh fish - and if it's at last semi-fresh-fish flown in from Manila, it's absurdely expensive)

GHM
6 deerpoints for Datai
6 deerpoints for Setai
6 deerpoints for Nam Hai

COMO Hotels & Resorts
8 (7) deerpoints for The Halkin London
7 deerpoints for Metropolitan London (Nobu Restaurant is part of the hotel and has Michelin Star quality, whilst breakfast is quite average)
7 (6-8) deerpoints for Metropolitan Bangkok
6 (6) deerpoints for Como Shambala Estate (formerly known as Begawan Giri)
5 deerpoints for Parrot Cay

MANDARIN ORIENTAL
9 deerpoints for MO Tokyo (three very different, fantastic Michelin starred outlets + much more...)
(8) deerpoints for MO Hong Kong
(8) deerpoints for MO Prague
6 deerpoints for MO Munich (they have a Michelin Star restaurant, which could be slightly more creative)
6 deerpoints for MO New York
(5) deerpoints for MO London (maybe now 7 or 8 after the arrival of Blumenthal?)
5 deerpoints for The Oriental, Bangkok (they have a lot of good restaurants, but each one lacks a little bit in real creativity and uniqueness. Something inhibits them from having something real special.)
5 deerpoints for MO Chiang Mai
4 deerpoints for MO Kuala Lumpur

HYATT
7 deerpoints for PH Tokyo
(7) deerpoints for GH Tokyo (specifically for Roku Roku Sushi by MikeFromTokyo)
6 deerpoints for PH Saigon
(6) deerpoints for PH Paris
(5) deerpoints for PH Washington
4 deerpoints for PH Shanghai
4 deerpoints for PH Milan
4 deerpoints for PH Beijing (without The Private Room, it's authentic Cantonese Cuisine and it's special setting it would be definitely less)
4 deerpoints for GH Berlin
3 deerpoints for PH Hamburg (good standard, but nothing special)

PENINSULA
(6) deerpoints for Pen Tokyo
4 deerpoints for Pen Bangkok

SHANGRI-LA
(7) deerpoints for SL Tokyo

RITZ-CARLTON
9 deerpoints for RC Wolfsburg
(5) deerpoints for RC Central Park, NYC
(5) deerpoints for RC Georgetown, Washington
4 deerpoints for RC Berlin

ROSEWOOD:
(7) deerpoints for San Miguel del Allende
(5) deerpoints for Mayakoba
(4) deerpoints for Las Ventanas al Paraiso

ROCCO FORTE:
4 deerpoints for Brown's Hotel, London
4 deerpoints for Hotel de Russie, Rome
3 deerpoints for The Charles, Munich
1 deerpoint for Hotel de Rome, Berlin

REGENT:
8 deerpoints for Regent Berlin

OBEROI:
(5) deerpoints for Zahra
(4) deerpoints for Amarvilas
(3) deerpoints for Udaivilas

TAJ:
(5-6) deerpoints for Taj Umaid Bhawan Palace
(5) deerpoints for Taj Lake Palace

ALILA
6 (6) deerpoints for Alila Villas Soori

INDEPENDENT:
(9) deerpoints for Nimb, Copenhagen
(9) deerpoints for Berkeley, London
(9) deerpoints for Oustau de Baumaniere in Les Baux de Provence
(9) deerpoints for Manoir des Quatre Saisons, Oxfordshire
(8) deerpoints for Inverlochy Castle in Fort William, Scotland
(8) deerpoints for Auberge du Soleil, Napa Valley
8 (4-9) deerpoints for Dolder Grand, Zurich
8 (8) deerpoints for Villa Feltrinelli, Lake Garda
(8) deerpoints for Le Meurice
(8) deerpoints for The Connaught
(8) deerpoints for The Dorchester
(8) deerpoints for Elysian Chicago
6 deerpoints for Trisara, Phuket
(5) deerpoints for The Greenwich Hotel, NYC
(5) deerpoints for Anantara Qasr al Sarab, Abu Dhabi
(5) deerpoints for The Bal�, Bali
(4) deerpoints for Kayumanis Ubud and Jimbaran, Bali
(4) deerpoints for JK Capri
(4) deerpoints for LimeWood, somewhere in England
(4) deerpoints for Claridges, London
4 deerpoints for Schloss Elmau, Southern Bavaria (a deserved Michelin Star for it's fine dining restaurant, whilst italian restaurant and main restaurant are only mediocre and tear the rating down from 8 to 4 stars)
4 deerpoints for Six Senses Yao Noi, Thailand
(3) deerpoints for The Savoy

*All my ranking & rating according to experiences in the last 6 years - so some things could have changed. Please correct me where I'm wrong!

10 deerpoints for Four Seasons George V . Eric Briffard is the ideal chef for the hotel. I was a huge fan of his back when he was at Les �lys�es du Vernet, and I now think that Le Cinq is even better.

5 points for FS Marunouchi- Ekki Bar and Grill. Very good comfort food, excellent service, and relaxed atmosphere make this restaurant a favorite. This is the hotel`s only restaurant, which provides all F&B at the property.
6 points for the restaurants of The Peninsula Tokyo
7.5 points for Piacere at Shangri-la Tokyo, 7 deerpoints for Nadaman.
7 points for Roku Roku Sushi at Grand Hyatt Tokyo, this sushi restaurant is surprisingly good. If you sit at the counter and order Omakase (leave it to the chef) this is some of the best sushi to be found at any hotel in Tokyo.

I have to admit embarassingly that I was never at FS George V...

But I assume, it's 10 deerpoints for FS George V, Paris - since I would love you to rate the whole food experience of a hotel or resort.

Most likely the other restaurants at this hotel are not so bad, that they ruin the 10 deerpoints for your overall food quality rating of the hotel?

By all means 10 points for F&B Throughout the hotel! It is just Le Cinq that steals the show.

Thanks for providing such a defined scale and insisting that we calibrate to it, deer.

So if we hold true to a definition of 4 deerpoints as "good luxury-hotel food with some local accents," here are my ratings:

FOUR SEASONS:
Bosphorus: 4 deerpoints
Chiang Mai: 5 deerpoints
George V: 8 deerpoints (prior to Eric Briffard--must return now!)
Hampshire: 3 deerpoints
Langkawi: 4 deerpoints
Nile Plaza: 3 deerpoints
Provence: 9 deerpoints in Faventia; 2 deerpoints elsewhere
Sharm-el-Sheikh: 3 deerpoints
Sultanahmet: 4 deerpoints
Tented Camp: 1 deerpoint

AMAN:
Amangiri:2 deerpoints
Amankora: 4 deerpoints
Amanusa: 5 deerpoints
Amankila: 4 deerpoints
Amanwana: 5 deerpoints
Amandari: 3 deerpoints
Amanjiwo: 3 deerpoints
Amanbagh:4 deerpoints
Aman-i-khas: 1 deerpoint
Aman New Delhi: 4 deerpoints
Amanyara: 6 deerpoints

ROSEWOOD:
Las Ventanas al Paraiso: 4 deerpoints
Mayakoba: 5 deerpoints
San Miguel del Allende: 7 deerpoints

OBEROI:
Amarvilas: 4 deerpoints
Udaivilas: 3 deerpoints
Zahra: 5 deerpoints

OTHER:
Nimb: 9 deerpoints
Villa Feltrinelli: 8 deerpoints
Dolder Grand: 9 deerpoints
Taj Umaid Bhawan Palace: 5 deerpoints
Taj Lake Palace: 5 deerpoints
The Savoy: 3 deerpoints
JK Capri: 4 deerpoints
The Greenwich Hotel: 5 deerpoints
Le Meurice: 8 deerpoints
The Connaught: 8 deerpoints
The Dorchester: 8 deerpoints
LimeWood: 4 deerpoints
Anantara Qasr al Sarab: 5 deerpoints

Thanks for starting this thread
Am currently at MOHK, & noticed you left it out..
Just dined at Pierre
Think MOHK is 8 with their numerous choices.

Too sleepy to comment further on them or others

What a fun idea. Some more North American and European hotels here:


Ritz Carlton (FS) Chicago -- 7 deerpoints. French bistro food done perfectly.

Elysian Chicago -- 8 deerpoints. Both Balsan and Ria are some of the best in their respective categories in the city.

Four Seasons New York -- 8 deerpoints.

Four Seasons Vancouver -- 8 deerpoints.

Four Seasons Washington -- 6 deerpoints. I find Seasons to be a much more pleasant experience than the overhyped Bourbon Steak.

Four Seasons Dublin -- 7 deerpoints. Dinner at Seasons is a great time here as well, and the best English (Irish) breakfast I've had.

Ritz Carlton Washington (Georgetown) -- 5 deerpoints. A low point for an otherwise top-notch hotel, surprisingly.

Ritz Carlton New York -- 6 deerpoints, assuming BLT Market counts.

Berkeley London -- 9 deerpoints. Marcus Waering is divine, Koffman's great for what it is, and the Caramel Room's breakfast is consistently excellent, if marred by slow service.

Mandarin Oriental London -- 5 deerpoints. Good, not great, all around.

Savoy London -- 3 deerpoints. Disappointing, along with the rest of the hotel.

Halkin London -- 7 deerpoints. Nahm is world-class, but the lack of options is a bit frustrating.

Mandarin Oriental Prague -- 6 deerpoints. Great food, overbearing service.

Dolder Grand -- 4 deerpoints. I was actually quite underwhelmed by the F&B options here.

Oh, wow - such rapid and brillant responses from all of you! Thank you very much!

I left out every hotel where I did not stay or dine enough to be able to give a fair deerpointage.

Maybe I will later make a compendium of all the hotels you & I rated here, with a from-to-point-spread.

All I know is I have the urge for some venison right now.

from my second thread >


isnt it more about three meals a day, rather than 'every restaurant' ? (or at least breakfast and dinner)

with three meals a day, that is where all-inclusive / full board come in...
- amanyara still has free full board offer i think. otherwise there is an exclusive.
- also think CSE is full board only now. edit - theyve changed back again.
(these two properties have 6s above.)

my first thread > http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...foodblogs.html

of the seven properties that seem best regarded for service here, ive already noticed that they are not necessarily best regarded for anything but service. that includes food, beach, etc. but this is a really interesting thread with scores in that context. (only) two of the seven properties have high scores >
- FS paris - 10 and 8
- pen tokyo - 6

dolder grand and FS bosphorus are also very well regarded here for europe, and they do pretty well in this thread. FS bosphorus and other properties in this thread were also mentioned by vuittonsofstyle in my second thread. same with FS HK for asia.

The problem with scoring hotels on their F&B is that we are not lauding the hotel, but the chef and the F&B director, so if one or both leave, then everything can go downhill, which happens very often in my experience.

Conversely, standards can rocket when one chef leaves and another joins.

There are a few properties that seem to manage to ride the tide of departing chefs, but it is not always the case.

Wow, surprised no one mentioned R&S. This is far and away the best hotel chain when it comes to dining. Nothing else is close. Of course dining is one of the key aspects of this "chain". It's way more important than the hotel, although the hotel itself is usually excellent at most of these smaller properties.

This is true. Case in point, the Four Seasons Singapore. The Chinese restaurant is one of the best I have ever been to. But the total hotel experience was very poor. One of my biggest luxury disappointments ever.

I agree that Relais&Chateaux is by far the best when it comes to food, but the hotel is also important to be a Relais&Chateaux. If the R&C both has hotel & restaurant the hotel must still be up to a good standard to be a R&C. That is what I like about it and why it's my favorite hotel brand with independent hotels. LHW has disappointed me quite some times and there is too many of them. There is many R&C as well, but with an average size of 25 rooms it's possible to include a lot of small independent experiences around the world.

I'll have to thank FlyerTalk for telling me about Relais&Chateaux. It's changed the way I see hotel experiences and is the only thing I will travel for in the future.

Oh, forgot to give the bambi points or whatever.

Every R&S I have been to in France gets 10 points for the restaurant. Many of them actually have their own Michelin stars. For instance, Lameloise has 3 stars and I would rank it well over any Four Seasons or MO restaurant in the world. However while the hotel is also nice, it's nowhere near as good as many FS and MO hotels.