The SAS | EuroBonus Forum Kafé
Sep 23, 2022, 12:54 am
#6751
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SJ used to operate a Malmö - Berlin sleeper train via the Trelleborg - Sassnitz ferry. When SJ withdrew from the route for commercial reasons, Veolia's Swedish open access subsidiary Snälltĺget took it over as a summertime seasonal route, via the same ferry. Veolia and Transdev merged, and Transdev is currently trying to sell Snälltĺget.
The night train via the ferry was cheap but not cheerful, especially because the carriages had no air conditioning and passengers had to endure quite warm temperatures in the car deck of the ferry (as well as car alarms sounding throughout the journey).
Then Covid-19 killed off the ferry route. In 2021 Snälltĺget took the initiative and re-launched the night train with refurbished couchette carriages and a new route via Denmark. Snälltĺget also extended it to/from Stockholm by adding the carriages to a regular Snälltĺget intercity train. The end-to-end journey time is about the same, although it takes a very slow route between Hamburg and Berlin. The Snälltĺget night train still only runs during the summer months but also with a handful of autumn (Octoberfest) and winter (Christmas) weekends. They've even extended it to Dresden on a couple of occasions.
Transportstyrelsen recently opened a procurement for two international night trains: a Malmö-Brussels train (no-one bid for this) and a Stockholm-Hamburg train (Snälltĺget oppose procured trains in principle, didn't bid and SJ won). So since the start of September, SJ offer a second night train from Stockholm via Denmark as far as Hamburg-Altona. It launched with couchettes only, but private 1st and 2nd class compartments will be available as soon as the Danish authorities approve them. The SJ night train only gets a Swedish subsidy when Snälltĺget doesn't run.
I've used the Snälltĺget train. It's expensive but kind of fun, and has a really early arrival time in Hamburg Hbf, which is useful for connections to DE, CH, AT, HU, CZ, BE, NL etc.
The night train via the ferry was cheap but not cheerful, especially because the carriages had no air conditioning and passengers had to endure quite warm temperatures in the car deck of the ferry (as well as car alarms sounding throughout the journey).
Then Covid-19 killed off the ferry route. In 2021 Snälltĺget took the initiative and re-launched the night train with refurbished couchette carriages and a new route via Denmark. Snälltĺget also extended it to/from Stockholm by adding the carriages to a regular Snälltĺget intercity train. The end-to-end journey time is about the same, although it takes a very slow route between Hamburg and Berlin. The Snälltĺget night train still only runs during the summer months but also with a handful of autumn (Octoberfest) and winter (Christmas) weekends. They've even extended it to Dresden on a couple of occasions.
Transportstyrelsen recently opened a procurement for two international night trains: a Malmö-Brussels train (no-one bid for this) and a Stockholm-Hamburg train (Snälltĺget oppose procured trains in principle, didn't bid and SJ won). So since the start of September, SJ offer a second night train from Stockholm via Denmark as far as Hamburg-Altona. It launched with couchettes only, but private 1st and 2nd class compartments will be available as soon as the Danish authorities approve them. The SJ night train only gets a Swedish subsidy when Snälltĺget doesn't run.
I've used the Snälltĺget train. It's expensive but kind of fun, and has a really early arrival time in Hamburg Hbf, which is useful for connections to DE, CH, AT, HU, CZ, BE, NL etc.
I’ve used Snalltaget overnight trains to get to Swedish ski resorts and hope such kind of services long continue, but I have little interest to take their or anyone else’s sleeper trains to go between city destinations. The primary exception being if flight schedules wouldn’t pan out as well as an overnight train.
I took an overnight Trelleborg-Sassnitz ferry to get to Rugen about 20 years ago. Don’t recall any train cars on it then, but overnight ferries are something I would rather avoid — maybe something I would rather avoid even more than overnight trains.
Sep 23, 2022, 2:54 am
#6752
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
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The ones that make sense would be from Trelleborg to Travemunde or Malmo to Travemunde. We used to be able to do those really cheap before they introduced the crappy clean up fee.
Sep 23, 2022, 3:23 am
#6753
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
When the bridge opened, it was cheaper for the logistics companies to just send two drivers. And eventually, they sized down to one driver again but found the Eastern Europeans which were willing to sleep on the side of the road and eat canned food.
With the truck disappearing from the ferries, TT Lines also went into a steep decline. Almost all of the leisure services on board (restaurant, club, cinema, casino, spa, etc) has been eliminated in the new ships. And what they now call the bar or restaurant is nothing more than what you get on the 1hr speed ferries by Scandlines. And introduced the no-night-passage-without-cabin policy. Which pissed off a lot of tourists. And then also opted for Scandlines Puttgarden-Rodby and drive over the bridge instead.
The real price hit came, when TT Lines decided that every passenger has to book a bunk bed in a cabin for the overnight ferry. I know a lot of people which took the night ferry and just sleep in the recliners or even on the floor. This ships were packed to the brim in the 80s. When TT Line changed that policy, most of those travelers then opted for Grenaa-Varberg where they did not had that policy. And then.... the bridge opened. And as said above, it changed the business forever.
Sep 23, 2022, 8:58 am
#6754
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
Posts: 11,095
Not all ferries on a route have train rails mounted. I think it is only 1/3 of the fleet.
The 8-10hrs ferries between Travemünde and Trelleborg or Malmö were a huge success in the 70s and 80s before opening up the bridge since it allowed the truck and bus drivers to "sleep" (well, they should.... but enough spend the night in the bar, club, cinema or gambling hall aka the casino on board) and recover their duty times. So, you could drive from e.g. mid-west Germany to Travemünde, take the ferry and next day drive all the way up to Örebro. With just one driver not not timing out.
When the bridge opened, it was cheaper for the logistics companies to just send two drivers. And eventually, they sized down to one driver again but found the Eastern Europeans which were willing to sleep on the side of the road and eat canned food.
With the truck disappearing from the ferries, TT Lines also went into a steep decline. Almost all of the leisure services on board (restaurant, club, cinema, casino, spa, etc) has been eliminated in the new ships. And what they now call the bar or restaurant is nothing more than what you get on the 1hr speed ferries by Scandlines. And introduced the no-night-passage-without-cabin policy. Which pissed off a lot of tourists. And then also opted for Scandlines Puttgarden-Rodby and drive over the bridge instead.
The real price hit came, when TT Lines decided that every passenger has to book a bunk bed in a cabin for the overnight ferry. I know a lot of people which took the night ferry and just sleep in the recliners or even on the floor. This ships were packed to the brim in the 80s. When TT Line changed that policy, most of those travelers then opted for Grenaa-Varberg where they did not had that policy. And then.... the bridge opened. And as said above, it changed the business forever.
The 8-10hrs ferries between Travemünde and Trelleborg or Malmö were a huge success in the 70s and 80s before opening up the bridge since it allowed the truck and bus drivers to "sleep" (well, they should.... but enough spend the night in the bar, club, cinema or gambling hall aka the casino on board) and recover their duty times. So, you could drive from e.g. mid-west Germany to Travemünde, take the ferry and next day drive all the way up to Örebro. With just one driver not not timing out.
When the bridge opened, it was cheaper for the logistics companies to just send two drivers. And eventually, they sized down to one driver again but found the Eastern Europeans which were willing to sleep on the side of the road and eat canned food.
With the truck disappearing from the ferries, TT Lines also went into a steep decline. Almost all of the leisure services on board (restaurant, club, cinema, casino, spa, etc) has been eliminated in the new ships. And what they now call the bar or restaurant is nothing more than what you get on the 1hr speed ferries by Scandlines. And introduced the no-night-passage-without-cabin policy. Which pissed off a lot of tourists. And then also opted for Scandlines Puttgarden-Rodby and drive over the bridge instead.
The real price hit came, when TT Lines decided that every passenger has to book a bunk bed in a cabin for the overnight ferry. I know a lot of people which took the night ferry and just sleep in the recliners or even on the floor. This ships were packed to the brim in the 80s. When TT Line changed that policy, most of those travelers then opted for Grenaa-Varberg where they did not had that policy. And then.... the bridge opened. And as said above, it changed the business forever.
Sep 23, 2022, 9:07 am
#6755
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Not all ferries on a route have train rails mounted. I think it is only 1/3 of the fleet.
The 8-10hrs ferries between Travemünde and Trelleborg or Malmö were a huge success in the 70s and 80s before opening up the bridge since it allowed the truck and bus drivers to "sleep" (well, they should.... but enough spend the night in the bar, club, cinema or gambling hall aka the casino on board) and recover their duty times. So, you could drive from e.g. mid-west Germany to Travemünde, take the ferry and next day drive all the way up to Örebro. With just one driver not not timing out.
When the bridge opened, it was cheaper for the logistics companies to just send two drivers. And eventually, they sized down to one driver again but found the Eastern Europeans which were willing to sleep on the side of the road and eat canned food.
With the truck disappearing from the ferries, TT Lines also went into a steep decline.
The 8-10hrs ferries between Travemünde and Trelleborg or Malmö were a huge success in the 70s and 80s before opening up the bridge since it allowed the truck and bus drivers to "sleep" (well, they should.... but enough spend the night in the bar, club, cinema or gambling hall aka the casino on board) and recover their duty times. So, you could drive from e.g. mid-west Germany to Travemünde, take the ferry and next day drive all the way up to Örebro. With just one driver not not timing out.
When the bridge opened, it was cheaper for the logistics companies to just send two drivers. And eventually, they sized down to one driver again but found the Eastern Europeans which were willing to sleep on the side of the road and eat canned food.
With the truck disappearing from the ferries, TT Lines also went into a steep decline.
Did those ferries have a big drop in truck/bus business in the 1990s? Any drop in the 1990s wasn't due to the Oresundbro(e)n.
Sep 23, 2022, 9:57 am
#6756
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
Interesting! I know that everyone needs to be in a cabin thing, but even then I was able to score a mini cruise for something like 695:- to Rostock and 795:- to Travemunde, and sometimes paid the same price for one way. But since that fee introduced it's no longer 695:- as we are 5 and suddenly it's 695:- + 200 x 5! That was the end of the good old days.
For trucks not before they opened up the brigde as afar as I am aware. For busses... yes. I think they added the cabin-policy in 1992 or 1993. And almost all youth groups and bus tour operators switched over to Grenaa-Varberg as it wasn't an option for them to book 50 cabins or so.
Sep 23, 2022, 10:44 am
#6757
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For trucks not before they opened up the brigde as afar as I am aware. For busses... yes. I think they added the cabin-policy in 1992 or 1993. And almost all youth groups and bus tour operators switched over to Grenaa-Varberg as it wasn't an option for them to book 50 cabins or so.
Until you mentioned this, I had always assumed that Grenaa ferries were more about Halmstad. I have a relative in Varberg, but never heard of the family taking a ferry from there to Grenaa. Unlike some other ferries and boat trips, this one just never came up in the conversations before.
Sep 23, 2022, 12:04 pm
#6759
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
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Just checked my emails, we did pay 1495kr a couple of times in 2012 but then the price dropped down to 895kr return for a family of 5 in 2014 (we did quite a few trips). I have done one way for 560kr with cabin for 5 in 2014. I know I have paid less than that but I can't find those emails, and I remember once I took the kids to Germany without Mr and we were able to pay even less for a 4 people cabin. I used to double dip with my OKQ8 credit card to get extra discount.
They even had baby cot for in the cabin!
Sep 23, 2022, 12:16 pm
#6760
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That's their regular "campaign" prices
Just checked my emails, we did pay 1495kr a couple of times in 2012 but then the price dropped down to 895kr return for a family of 5 in 2014 (we did quite a few trips). I have done one way for 560kr with cabin for 5 in 2014. I know I have paid less than that but I can't find those emails, and I remember once I took the kids to Germany without Mr and we were able to pay even less for a 4 people cabin. I used to double dip with my OKQ8 credit card to get extra discount.
They even had baby cot for in the cabin!
Just checked my emails, we did pay 1495kr a couple of times in 2012 but then the price dropped down to 895kr return for a family of 5 in 2014 (we did quite a few trips). I have done one way for 560kr with cabin for 5 in 2014. I know I have paid less than that but I can't find those emails, and I remember once I took the kids to Germany without Mr and we were able to pay even less for a 4 people cabin. I used to double dip with my OKQ8 credit card to get extra discount.
They even had baby cot for in the cabin!
Sep 29, 2022, 8:27 pm
#6761
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,169
I got an email confirmation for a Plus booking on between the Scandinavian capitals. SK can't even figure out their own lounge policies? Or there is a new lounge policy coming? (and yes it was signed "we are travelers" rather than "journeys that matter")
Sep 30, 2022, 2:44 am
#6762
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
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Posts: 48,184
They must have mixed up SAS Plus longhual with regional:
https://www.flysas.com/en/travel-inf...ravel-classes/
https://www.flysas.com/en/travel-inf...ravel-classes/
SAS Plus
Choose SAS Plus to enjoy more comfort and service. On flights within Scandinavia, Finland and Europe the seat comfort is the same as in SAS Go, but to and from Asia, Canada and the US you get a wider seat and extra legroom.Europe and Scandinavia
- Coffee and tea
- Meal/snack
- Fast Track
- SAS Lounge
- Priority boarding
- Free WiFi (available on most flights)
Asia, Canada and the US
- Three-course menu
- Beverages and snacks during the flight
- Seat configuration: 2-3-2
- The first row in SAS Plus has leg rests, the other rows have footrests
- Wider seats and extra leg room
- Reclining seat
- Adjustable headrest
- Entertainment system on 12" HD screen
- Power outlets and USB ports
- Free seat selection
- Free WiFi
Sep 30, 2022, 2:49 am
#6763
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,169
They must have mixed up SAS Plus longhual with regional:
https://www.flysas.com/en/travel-inf...ravel-classes/
https://www.flysas.com/en/travel-inf...ravel-classes/
Sep 30, 2022, 3:37 am
#6764
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,979
I think there are some inconsitencies on the website. https://www.flysas.com/en/travel-inf...rport/lounges/ still says:
When arriving in SAS Business or SAS Plus directly from Asia or the US on a SAS flight, you have access to the SAS Lounges (except for SAS Gold Lounges) in Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen and Chicago.
Don't think they did change that.
LOUNGE ACCESS POLICY
TRAVELING IN SAS BUSINESS OR SAS PLUS
As a SAS Business or SAS Plus traveler you have access to all SAS Lounges (except for SAS Gold Lounges) when departing. You must present a same-day boarding pass in SAS Business/SAS Plus on an SAS operated flight from the local airport.When arriving in SAS Business or SAS Plus directly from Asia or the US on a SAS flight, you have access to the SAS Lounges (except for SAS Gold Lounges) in Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen and Chicago.
Sep 30, 2022, 6:33 am
#6765
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Maybe SAS can go to a “Business Lite” model where they charge additional for lounge access, the business class meal isn’t included, seat selection isn’t a free option and the baggage allowance included is set at zero.