cfxa2000

Thanks a lot, please do update what United confirms? I think you are looking for India as your destination, do let me know if NAAT is okay for India (Del/ Blr/ Bom)?

estnet

From the CDC USA (to clarify - the problem is that expecting a check in agent to know/decipher this is unrealistic. I think they just look at what is printed on the lab result ? to see if it says PCR or not - but IME that varies too)

"A Nucleic Acid Amplification Test, or NAAT, is a type of viral diagnostic test for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. NAATs detect genetic material (nucleic acids). NAATs for SARS-CoV-2 specifically identify the RNA (ribonucleic acid) sequences that comprise the genetic material of the virus.

NAATs for SARS-CoV-2 test specimens from either the upper or lower respiratory tract. The type of specimen collected when testing for SARS-CoV-2 is based on the test being performed and the manufacturer’s instructions. See CDC’s Collecting and Handling of Clinical Specimens for COVID-19 Testing.

The NAAT procedure works by first amplifying – or making many copies of – the virus’s genetic material, if any is present in a person’s specimen. Amplifying those nucleic acids enables NAATs to detect very small amounts of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in a specimen, making these tests highly sensitive for diagnosing COVID-19. In other words, NAATs can reliably detect small amounts of SARS-CoV-2 and are unlikely to return a false-negative result of SARS-CoV-2.

NAATs can use many different methods to amplify nucleic acids and detect the virus, including but not limited to:

• Reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR)
• Isothermal amplification including:
  • Nicking endonuclease amplification reaction (NEAR)
  • Transcription mediated amplification (TMA)
  • Loop-mediated isothermal amplification (LAMP)
  • Helicase-dependent amplification (HDA)
  • Clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats (CRISPR)
  • Strand displacement amplification (SDA)"
  • Full info at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...lab/naats.html

SamirD

It is actually not for India, but went through that previous in April and RT-PCR was the only thing United would accept.

SamirD

Yep, and unrealistic is beyond hopeful as it is almost completely dependent on what the ticketing agent 'feels' is right, and there is no real recourse. I saw whole families denied boarding on my trip to India and the entire business class cabin was almost empty because of it. Hence why I'm going to go to the airport and check, and even that isn't definitive since the person checking me in will surely be different than the person I will be talking to...

SamirD

Well, it seems United at SFO still doesn't know that Kaiser's NAAT test is the same as an RT-PCR. Even though a call to Kaiser AND United confirmed that the Kaiser test should be valid for travel, when I just went to the airport with a previous Kaiser report, the lead working at the International counter said that it is not valid for travel. When I mentioned calling Kaiser and United and both said it should be valid, he reply was that 'the phone agents don't know what is going on here [at SFO]', which makes sense to me since the right hand clearly doesn't know what the left is doing.

Now, we're basically in the same situation as we were on the last trip, except with more time and hopefully more options. I'll be reviewing this thread for RT-PCR testing sites and hopefully will have some more firsthand data points.

Sad to see that even though the Kaiser test is actually a valid test that bad workflow and training is keeping it from being used.

cfxa2000

Agreed, looks like it's dependent on how much the gate agent knows. In all probability, the agent won't take any risk and will stick to "RT-PCR" writing!! It's understandable because of their limited job responsibility and they don't want to be held accountable later (by airline or by the destination country) if something doesn't match up!!
I went to GoHealth market street, they offering the NAAT test and categorically said it's NOT the same as RT-PCR test. Also, their physician/ doctor won't give any letter mentioning NAAT and RT-PCR are similar/ comparable!

I find the safest bet is to get RT-PCR test from the airport itself !!

SamirD

They are actually following their guidance to a T, which is all they can do. I went at a time when they weren't too busy so 5 different people were involved--the original ticket agent, an adjacent one, their immediate lead, then an adjoining lead, and finally their 'guru' lead who came back from a break and definitively answered that 'if I gave them this result report (dated appropriately) would I be allowed to fly?', and the answer was no because the test lists as NAA. I pointed out the paragraph where Kaiser mentions this is an amplification test and that it is valid for all travel, and he said that it didn't matter since all they're looking for is the report to say it is an RT-PCR, he specifically said that if the NAA said RT-PCR, then it would be valid (which anyone that wants to edit a PDF can easily do).

Now, this can all change depending on the gate agent as the 3 previous ticketing agents seem to deduce that it would be valid, but that they weren't 100% sure--aka, you can probably smooth past them if you act like you know what you're doing and have the right answers that matches timatic, which is what they were consulting along with their internal procedures. But if you have an agent that is going to error on the side of caution, you will not be able to fly. It is still a risk.

So to ensure our travel investment does not go to waste, we're all going to get RT-PCR tests, and it seems like there are several options unlike in April.

I asked what would happen if the country requirements changed from check-in to arrival and they had a clear answer for that--the country will honor the rules that were in place at the time of check-in. (Like virus transmission cares about this like this, lmao.) So that is some peace of mind. However, it was also a bit unnerving that their most recent internal guidance was as of the end of June and our destination has updated their covid page twice, once on July 1st and again on July 9th.

It's amazing how much RT-PCR has pretty much turned into a money racket--so many more testing places, so expensive, and no one willing to take responsibility for the results, the time, the type of test, or even insurance. It's so profitable that I see opportunities for shady people to 'break into the market' with slightly cheaper tests that simply stamp negative tests for everyone and profit.

The absolutely safe option is still the original one that my wife and I took at $400/ea or any of the many 'same-day guaranteed' testing sites that now do an RT-PCR for as much as $650/ea. But this is truly outrageous for testing kits that are now readily available and labs that are no longer swamped (unless they are because of all the travel, then I guess it's supply and demand).

estnet

When I flew with Qatar I didn't have the cvs result b/c a fault in their system - but I used the pixel which they debated about until I pointed to the part where it said PCR and they relented. This was when I was NOT required even have a pcr to go to the Maldives - but the gate agents didn't care! It is totally up to whoever you randomly get to check the docs

Here is what the relevant part of the test I got at CVS said:

Test type
SARS-COV-2 RNA, QL, RT PCR (COVID-19)

and this is what the pixel result said:
SARS-CoV-2, NAA
SARS-CoV-2, NAA Not Detected NORMAL Not Detected 01
This nucleic acid amplification test was developed and its performance
characteristics determined by LabCorp Laboratories. Nucleic acid
amplification tests include RT-PCR and TMA. This test has not been
FDA cleared or approved. This test has been authorized by FDA under
an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). This test is only authorized
for the duration of time the declaration that circumstances exist
justifying the authorization of the emergency use of in vitro
diagnostic tests for detection of SARS-CoV-2 virus and/or diagnosis
of COVID-19 infection under section 564(b)(1) of the Act, 21 U.S.C.
360bbb-3

SamirD

Yep, it's really the gate agents that get to play God in these times. Catch one on a bad day and they can deny all day long and who's to stop them?

The CVS test has the magic 'RT PCR' in the test title while the Pixel test is identical to my Kaiser test which was just refused by United earlier today as 'not valid for boarding' even though both Kaiser and United said it would be on the phone.

Rule of thumb is still just don't travel unless you have too...it's still a real mess and is what's going to bring Delta and all the other variants to the US because travel always seems to do that, especially air travel.

estnet

So apparently covid tests are in high demand - can't find any apts for 2 weeks for any place surrounding about 20 miles at cvs or walgreens - have others noticed it is MUCH harder now than it was a few months ago to get tested?

TWA884

Try an urgent care clinic. Here they do it on a first come basis, no appointments.

SamirD

Interesting data point. The wife will need to schedule one soon so we'll see how far out Kaiser is. It was about a week out at the worst point, but in recent weeks you could easily get something same day. Hopefully that hasn't changed.

estnet

I just spoke to my neighbor who has Kaiser and hers had apts within 2 days and fast results. I don't have Kaiser.

estnet

Good call - there is one but it requires apt (and none for a few days) BUT they also charge $150 when CVS, Walgreens just bill insurance or the state. Very curious why it is so hard to get tested now compared to April May when fewer people were vaccinated - not so important for me but people who have much less flexibility probably will just give up if it's become so hard to be tested

TWA884

The urgent care that I went to a couple of weeks ago to get a PCR Covid test billed my insurance, there was no copayment and I didn't have to pay a penny out of pocket. I had to wait an hour to have the sample taken. Got the results 28 hours later.