QANTAS new rule changes
Nov 29, 2004, 11:06 pm
#241
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,034
Winners
Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
As far as pure mileage redemption is concerned, the only winners (or non-losers) are those taking one-way flights in the following narrow partial (and the final full) band widths:
- 0 - 600 (coach: 10K to 8K)
- 1,001 - 1,200 (coach: 15K to 10K)
- 2,701 - 3,600 (coach: 25K unchanged) (bus: 50K unchanged)
- 5,001 - 5,800 (coach: 40K to 36K) (bus: 80K to 72K)
....deleted..
Some of the QF flights may not be operating now and the codeshares may be out of date, as my list is over 12 months old
0 to 600 miles
MAN FRA 518
LHR MUC 587
LHR TXL 590
1001 to 1200 miles
BNE ADL 1007
DRW DPS 1018
AYQ PER 1021
PER BME 1040
CNS DRW 1042
LAX YVR 1081
AYQ CNS 1112
ASP MEL 1153
5001 to 5800 miles
MEL NRT 5059
SYD HNL 5066
MEL HNL 5504
HEL SIN 5761
HKG FCO 5778
Last edited by Mwenenzi; Dec 4, 2004 at 9:46 pm Reason: to match SPN edit above
Nov 29, 2004, 11:09 pm
#242
Join Date: Aug 2001
Programs: AA Plat & LTG; QF LTG
Posts: 9,837
Note that with the change to 10 zones for both SC earning and award redemptions, those city pairs that are losers for redemptions and also winners for SC earning. Its a double sided arguement. And, yes, the losers are bigger for J and F cabins rewards, but similarly the gains in SC earning are biggest in the premium cabins for these same bands of distances.
Nov 29, 2004, 11:55 pm
#243
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,061
Of course this is entirely correct, which is why I qualified my analysis of winners and losers, "As far as pure mileage redemption is concerned, . . . " and "When it comes to redemption considered without respect to earning ability, . . ."
On the other hand, given the new QF definition of "trip" as including any stopover, the chart actually understates the extent of the damage to accrued mile balances.
Those who continue to fly QF premium classes will not be hurt as badly as those who do not.
As for me, I'll looking for those business class seats in the 5,001 - 5,800 mile range, such as AA NRT-SJC.
On the other hand, given the new QF definition of "trip" as including any stopover, the chart actually understates the extent of the damage to accrued mile balances.
Those who continue to fly QF premium classes will not be hurt as badly as those who do not.
As for me, I'll looking for those business class seats in the 5,001 - 5,800 mile range, such as AA NRT-SJC.
Nov 30, 2004, 1:16 am
#244
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
I apologize if I still seemed a bit peeved.
The only "foreign" QF flight of real interest ex PER is in my opinion to SIN. Post-May2005 none appeal as QF would seem to want you to use the PER-SIN flight ONLY as a connecting flight on the Kangaroo route.
As I recall the "old" awards cost 30K miles economy RT
As the "enhanced" versions are now 50k economy
I believe that calculates to an enhancement cost of
66.666%
with a "no change" in the SC (20) credits awarded each way for paid travel.
Upgrades are now prohibitive. Add that ex SIN tickets on the route are about 20% cheaper than exPER.
For the QFF that is not using the account as a commuter or as a once off family holiday to Europe, where are the QFF benefits? The dream of that potential upgrade or the regional award ticket are gone. I still haven't calmed down enough to write to Customer Relations. The only QFF not disadvantaged are the BNE/SYD/MEL commuters and the once-off families. And Perth based flyers are more disadvantaged than most.
One minor plus (that QF will probably discover and enhance) is that it appears a pair of cheap YUP AA flights (1200miles+ credited as F = 120SC@) will be almost enough to rollover my QF PS status when combined with the couple of red-edeals I would use domestically each year. Just no serious miles will be sent to the account. Perhaps 5-8K miles to keep the PS (one never knows). Previously about 40K credited each year.
Perhaps QF needs to total the miles credited over the current year to existing QFF members. And compare it to the next year's total. Perhaps next year's enhancements will not be so one-sided. Or would QF prefer to serve other OW FFs rather than their own?
WF
The only "foreign" QF flight of real interest ex PER is in my opinion to SIN. Post-May2005 none appeal as QF would seem to want you to use the PER-SIN flight ONLY as a connecting flight on the Kangaroo route.
As I recall the "old" awards cost 30K miles economy RT
As the "enhanced" versions are now 50k economy
I believe that calculates to an enhancement cost of
66.666%
with a "no change" in the SC (20) credits awarded each way for paid travel.
Upgrades are now prohibitive. Add that ex SIN tickets on the route are about 20% cheaper than exPER.
For the QFF that is not using the account as a commuter or as a once off family holiday to Europe, where are the QFF benefits? The dream of that potential upgrade or the regional award ticket are gone. I still haven't calmed down enough to write to Customer Relations. The only QFF not disadvantaged are the BNE/SYD/MEL commuters and the once-off families. And Perth based flyers are more disadvantaged than most.
One minor plus (that QF will probably discover and enhance) is that it appears a pair of cheap YUP AA flights (1200miles+ credited as F = 120SC@) will be almost enough to rollover my QF PS status when combined with the couple of red-edeals I would use domestically each year. Just no serious miles will be sent to the account. Perhaps 5-8K miles to keep the PS (one never knows). Previously about 40K credited each year.
Perhaps QF needs to total the miles credited over the current year to existing QFF members. And compare it to the next year's total. Perhaps next year's enhancements will not be so one-sided. Or would QF prefer to serve other OW FFs rather than their own?
WF
Nov 30, 2004, 7:30 am
#245
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, TX -- AA Life Platinum; QF Life Silver; UA Silver
Posts: 5,462
Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
V . . . . 17,501 - 30,000 . . . . . . . . . 110K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 275K
“V” . 8,751 - 15,000 . . . . . . . 65K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 137½K
9 . . . . 8,401 - 9,600 . . . . . . .56K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 112K . . . . . . . . . . . . . .168K
10 . . . 9,601 - 15,000 . . . . . . 64K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128K . . . . . . . . . . . . . .192K
“V” . 8,751 - 15,000 . . . . . . . 65K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 137½K
9 . . . . 8,401 - 9,600 . . . . . . .56K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 112K . . . . . . . . . . . . . .168K
10 . . . 9,601 - 15,000 . . . . . . 64K . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128K . . . . . . . . . . . . . .192K
That makes 8751-9600 coach go from 55k to 56k and 9601-15000 go from 55k to 64k.. both losses
Status credit wise, things are a little better. Table shows old/new SC's earned per zone. Bold indicates net loss of SC's. Main loss is the 5000-5800 mile region, with a net loss of SC's in all classes. This includes most Europe - North America and North America - South America routes.
Code:
disc | econ | biz | first 1 0-600 10/10 | 20/20 | 30/ 40 | 30 /60 2 601-1000 10/15 | 20/30 | 30 /60 | 30 /90 2 1001-1200 20/15 | 40/30 | 60 /60 | 60 /90 2 1201-2400 20/20 | 40/40 | 60 /80 | 60 /120 3 2401-2700 20/25 | 40/50 | 60 /100 | 60 /150 3 2701-3600 25/25 | 50/50 | 100/100 | 150/150 4 3601-4800 25/30 | 50/60 | 100/120 | 150/180 5 4801-5000 25/35 | 50/70 | 100/140 | 150/210 5 5001-5800 40/35 | 80/70 | 160/140 | 240/210 6 5801-7000 40/40 | 80/80 | 160/160 | 240/240 7 7001-8400 40/45 | 80/90 | 160/180 | 240/270 8 8401-8750 40/50 | 80/100 | 160/200 | 240/300 9 8751-9600 60/50 | 120/100 | 220/200 | 320/300 10 9601-15000 60/60 | 120/120 | 220/240 | 320/360
Last edited by hauteboy; Nov 30, 2004 at 8:14 am
Nov 30, 2004, 4:12 pm
#246
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
Having had time to ruiminate and cogitate on the new scheme, other than loss of UCs , it isn't going to be that bad for me. Mostly I use points for upgrades rather than free trips.
Looking at my next planned upgrade trip SYD-LHR or HNL-SYD
Flying SYD-SIN-LHR can cost 90,000 points though looking at it it looks like I am not going to be able to confirm a seat at the moment. If I waitlist for both sectors I am likely to end up with a cost of 45k + 70k = 115k
Under the new scheme, since there is no early clearing waitlist, getting dual charged isn't going to happen and the cost is 96k so not too bad an increase and is actually an improvement over the probable cost of 115k
The other flight I am looking at is HNL-SYD which is 5066 mile trip. Under the new scheme the cost is 48k or 3UCs compared to 70k or 4UCs under the old. Quite a nice improvement
While looking into it I did notice that for those that think that Pervians have been totally screwed, that the cost for an upgrade from PER-LHR has dropped from 90k to 80k given its position as a zone 9 trip.
The loss of UCs is really the only thing to affect me really
Dave
Looking at my next planned upgrade trip SYD-LHR or HNL-SYD
Flying SYD-SIN-LHR can cost 90,000 points though looking at it it looks like I am not going to be able to confirm a seat at the moment. If I waitlist for both sectors I am likely to end up with a cost of 45k + 70k = 115k
Under the new scheme, since there is no early clearing waitlist, getting dual charged isn't going to happen and the cost is 96k so not too bad an increase and is actually an improvement over the probable cost of 115k
The other flight I am looking at is HNL-SYD which is 5066 mile trip. Under the new scheme the cost is 48k or 3UCs compared to 70k or 4UCs under the old. Quite a nice improvement
While looking into it I did notice that for those that think that Pervians have been totally screwed, that the cost for an upgrade from PER-LHR has dropped from 90k to 80k given its position as a zone 9 trip.
The loss of UCs is really the only thing to affect me really
Dave
Last edited by Dave Noble; Nov 30, 2004 at 4:26 pm
Dec 1, 2004, 3:35 am
#247
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,061
Originally Posted by hauteboy
Shouldn't that be "V" 8751-15000 55k in coach?
That makes 8751-9600 coach go from 55k to 56k and 9601-15000 go from 55k to 64k.. both losses
That makes 8751-9600 coach go from 55k to 56k and 9601-15000 go from 55k to 64k.. both losses
Dec 1, 2004, 8:18 am
#248
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HKG 99.9%
Programs: QF Silver (OW Ruby)
Posts: 1,379
Hkg-akl
The HKG-AKL direct flight becomes a rip off
Direct flight 5676 miles = 35SC
Indirect flight via Sydney = 4571+1345 Miles = 30+20=50SC
Business Class is worst
Direct flight 5676 miles = 140SC
Indirect flight via Sydney = 4571+1345 Miles = 120 + 80 = 200. A real incentive to fly non direct flight.
Any other routes looks like this? Or worst?
Direct flight 5676 miles = 35SC
Indirect flight via Sydney = 4571+1345 Miles = 30+20=50SC
Business Class is worst
Direct flight 5676 miles = 140SC
Indirect flight via Sydney = 4571+1345 Miles = 120 + 80 = 200. A real incentive to fly non direct flight.
Any other routes looks like this? Or worst?
Dec 2, 2004, 5:34 pm
#249
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somewhere in Europe
Programs: QF LTG, NZ Silver, CX
Posts: 72
I don't believe this. I have just a a call from QF Frequent Flyer in reply to my email of complaint about the changes. The woman who called me said that they had been inundated with complaints and had set up a unit to deal specifically with complaints from WP's. Could Qantas actually be listening? On reflection, they're probably listening but won't actually do anything. Has anybody else had a similar call?