Wongo

Excel limitations. If someone can make the chart look better. more then welcome. At least here is a start.

monsooncat

It's still relatively early days for Virgin Blue (interesting typo), in the Aussie mkt. I dare say VB is biding its time & formulating the structure - it might not even be points but still a loyalty=reward of some form. Virgin has demonstrated it's understanding for the requirement for LPs with numerous schemes across many of their products in various industries worldwide. More specifically, VA's Flying Club.

Who knows if they will view this as an opportunity or whether they're ready to launch a LP - I hope so.

abcedaria

Im not sure that voting with your feet would work in this case if Virgin Blue did start up a loyatly program. The cost structure between VB and Atlantic would make the points virtually worthless as well. I can't see flying on a low-cost airline earning enough points anytime soon to fly upper class on Atlantic. I personally never use my points on internal flights, and rarely on internal upgrades. So if Virgin had a local loyalty program it would still be useless unless Virgin-all joined teams, and not just together, but with another program so I had a true choice. And to be honest, I can't stand virgin vodka (and yes, I am so petty as to skip an airline simply for the vodka).

As for loyalty programs being a way of getting something for nothing, I'd question the logic behind that assumption. We've recently seen the major retailers launch their petrol discount offer, which is surely a loyalty program. However does anyone believe that they are loosing four cents a litre? Or making an increased profit on the increase in sales to people are making to achieve their loyalty bonus? If someone believes that is truly a free program, I suggest a look at the annual reports.

Kiwi Flyer

No, I am referring to QF's new zones. After the first couple they are 1200 miles "width" eg 2401-3600; except zone 6 is 1000 and zone 8 1400. I presume there was a good reason for this rather than simply a typo.

Kiwi Flyer

For those flying Virgin Atlantic it is partly integrated to NZ airpoints. Can earn and redeem on VS, but unfortunately not earn status.

serfty

This puts the following city pairs at least in a higher Zone Bracket than they would otherwise have been...thereby gleaning another 6k (Y), 12K (J) & 18K(F) points per trip.

5800-6000:

ADELAIDE-BOMBAY 5695
ADELAIDE-HONOLULU 5695
AMSTERDAM-BANGKOK 5713
ATHENS-SINGAPORE 5631
AUCKLAND-HONG KONG 5685
BAHRAIN-PERTH 5887
BANGKOK-FRANKFURT 5583
BANGKOK-LONDON 5943
BANGKOK-MANCHESTER 5976
BEIJING-SYDNEY 5564
CALCUTTA-SYDNEY 5679
FRANKFURT-SAN FRANCISCO 5702
HOBART-SAPPORO 5922
LONDON-TOKYO 5978
(LOS ANGELES-SEATTLE 5692 under review)
MADRAS-SYDNEY 5674
MELBOURNE-SAPPORO 5557
PAPEETE-PERTH 5843
SEATTLE-SYDNEY 5896

7000-7200
ADELAIDE-BAHRAIN 7126
BAHRAIN-TOWNSVILLE 7168
BRISBANE-LOS ANGELES 7169
BRISBANE-SAN DIEGO 7200
BRISBANE-SAN FRANCISCO 7072
CAIRNS-LOS ANGELES 7195
CAIRNS-SAN FRANCISCO 7028
CAIRNS-VANCOUVER 7148
HARARE-SYDNEY 7125
MELBOURNE-MUSCAT 7023
MELBOURNE-SANTIAGO 7038
SAN FRANCISCO-TOWNSVILLE 7069
SANTIAGO-SYDNEY 7066

There may be more, but I have not the time to look. Alos, QANTAS do not fly all these.

ozstamps

I think many will agree. I am astounded to see that a First class SYD-NYC goes from 200K to 384,000. That is crazy.

Just to offer a comparison on the only other airline that flies direct oz to the USA, United offer a First Class award to NYC for 120,000 RT or less than one third QF level which is amazing. Heck onward from USA to anywhere Sth America is only 150,000 RT in First from oz. That is well over 30,000 miles of flying. ^

It seems a very drastic change. I am right in the middle of doing over 50,000 paid UA miles flying in a 3 week band right now, and am glad I went for 1K again.

I am sad to see many here are affected by this and think it will impact negatively on QF. Not being able to confirm It'l upgrades in advance as I read this thread seems to be a big minus feature. That is what most Biz folks fly for, all the US studies show - that I have read anyway.

Be interesting to learn if award bookings have increased markedly since this was announced - has anyone had an agent comment on that?

Just in case anyone here or anyone you know will take a UA flight anywhere before Mid Feb 2005, they can get 6,250 free miles if you are not already a member, and UA match the miles for me too in a targeted promo I just got:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374626

mad_atta

I have the UA promo too, which involves referring new customers to the UA programme. Both parties benefit with bonus miles: each gets 1,250 just for signing up, then another 5,000 for actually flying (if in eligible classes, which are pretty generous: F, A, P, C, D, Y, B, E, M, U, H, Q or V). If anyone would like me to refer them, feel free to PM me! :-:

Wongo

Something wrong with it? It looks odd. Most upgrades are cheaper. Shouldn't it cost more?

http://www.geocities.com/wybb/upgrades.xls

Please let me know if I made any errors.
Cheers
Wongo

AllyB

It does, in a way, if you consider the elimination of Upgrade Credits - in which case the mileage cost was 0.

RichardMEL

(phew! all the posts! )

re: DJ and Star - I don't think so. As we know DJ and UA do codeshare, but it is very limited to flights connecting to UA transpacs as a replacement for the lost AN feed to certain markets. DJ doesn't offer most of the requirements for Star (regional) membership - eg: lounges (yes I know there's the Blue Room, but that's a pay service) and FF points. Giving FF points would raise DJ's cost structure which they simply don't want to do (specially when competing with JQ and AO).

jetBlue does have a FF program of sorts, but i believe it is quite simple. I have no doubt DJ will follow down that line at some point, though I am sure Bret Godfrey etc are grinning from ear to ear at the QF's changes since it will drive folks over to their side.

I think all the FF programs are rationalising as someone else pointed out. While right now the UA's of this world are far nicer in terms of benefits we can be sure they will change too - but at least in the US marketplace it's difficult to implement such far reaching changes as QF, because nobody wants to be "the first one" to go out and do it fearing massive customer loss. QF knows it has a mostly captive market and can pretty much do what it likes.

ozstamps

I was just asked on the UA board when OzFest #2 in Sydney looks like occuring and the date most commonly requested appears to be May 2005:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336631

As these new changes will impact any foreign based Qantas flyers like spiff and they take effect May 25, I am going to suggest OzFest gets a date agreed to before May 25. Any non ozzie-based member who wants to grab an award ticket at "current bargain" rates can then attempt to do so and burn some miles.

And any of the interstate ozzies wanting to fly up can at least upgrade a cheapie coach ticket etc!

If you have any POV on this re an exact date in May, please add to the OzFest thread above. I'm guessing May 13/14/15 looks pretty good right now and is well away from School or national holidays?

Dave Noble

I have no concens which weekend in may it is. The changes don't really impact this since the old award chart is valid for all bookings made by 24th May, travel can commence after this date

Dave

HeyAussie

Let me know what routing you are using to get this mileage.

virtualtroy

And you can bet your bottom $ that it's keeping guys like these http://www.mm.fr.atosorigin.com/UK/offerings/crm.htm busy. The extent of changes announced yesterday could only have been dreamt up by a gaggle of consultants.