ThePope

You are seeing it from the POV of a consumer wanting to, effectively, get something for free. (Despite what we would like to think, all of our "earned" points/SC/UCs were given to us by QF/ANZ/CBA for "free" or at worst an small annual fee.)
From QF's POV, they have limited capacity, especially in the front of the bus sections, and if they think that they can sell those seats for real $, rather than give them away at a fraction of their normal cost, good on them.

Of course if it turns people who otherwise would have paid for them away to other carriers, then they've stuffed up, but you and your families holiday is not high on their list of priorities, I would think.

BTW, I'm not happy with the changes (PER pax get the worst deal, as usual), they should have kept some benefits for WPs, but at the end of the day we are talking about benefits that they DON'T have to provide AT ALL.
When you buy petrol, do you expect to get PULP for the price of ULP every 5th time you fill up?
When you get a haircut, do you expect to get a free colour treatment every 10th time?
We have 6 months to work out the changes, then we'll live with them. Those who reckon they'll get a better deal will go, others who've had 3000 points in each family members accounts might get a free trip and fly more.

ALEIN

more media exposure http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...219620279.html

Alan in CBR

(I realise the post I am replying to is about 7 pages ago, but it was only yesterday!)

Just for the record, NM, I agree entirely with your logic. "A bird in the hand ..." and all that.

Who's to say that you would have been able to get the upgrade later? I've lost a few upgrade credits through gambling on future availability. In fact I will be losing another one in 5 days time. Sure, as a WP you have more chance than I do to redeem them, but there are still no guarantees.

I'm sure you enjoyed the trip in F, and that's what really counts after all.

As to the changes, I'm not happy, but since I'm not a super-frequent flyer I'm trying to remain philosophical. The only thing which has made me really angry was the quote from the referenced article, "Qantas' head of marketing, Martin McKinnon, said the changes aimed to rebalance the program, which had reached 'almost a ridiculous point'."

What the f*** is that supposed to mean? Exactly what "ridiculous point" had been almost reached with the current programme? Does he really believe this? I don't think it's just in "marketing" that he's been keeping his head. I think he's also been keeping it up a certain part of his anatomy.

Alan.

ThePope

Mr Aus FF should watch his language!
"I find it strange and it will p1ss off the corporate travellers"!

mcsmcs

I would agree I am seeing the changes from a consumers point of view as that is what I am - although it seems to Qantas not an important one.

Nothing is for "free" and I dont expect it.

The "free" things that are paid for by my full price travel are the point of difference that make me choose Qantas.

I think it is very simplistic to take the view that as I am taking the premium class seat without paying that Qantas would be better off selling it to someone.

What if they sell it to someone who flies once per year? Would'nt it be better off giving it to me for "free" to guarantee the other fully paid 10 J flights and if the answer is yes then the service element of letting me confirm it 364 days in advance is also worth it.

Globaliser

It's typically bad journalism. The SMH article (immediately preceding post to yours) appears to give a fuller version of the sentence which contains the phrase:-As a soundbite, that appears to make no less sense than this one from the Age article:-Hello! QF have got fewer premium seats in their aircraft now! Isn't that a reason?

Taking the long view, I find it funny to see the very predictable comments being made here now, and feel a great sense of déjà vu. They're exactly the same comments that have been made on forum after forum here on FT over the last couple of years. You could have practically copied them from one to another.

If all the threats made had been carried through, all the major airlines of the world would have stopped flying by now for want of customers. But funnily enough, the same FT'ers appear in large measure to be flying the same airlines as they did before - even in places where one couldn't complain of a lack of competition.

AllyB

Of course Qantas doesn't have to provide a loyalty program - but that's just it, there would be no incentive to keep us loyal. One of the reasons why I have in the past chosen Qantas - despite what has frequently been an inferior, or at most, inconsistent product - was the fact that it's loyalty program met my needs, and rewarded me with the ability to upgrade on my leisure travels. Frankly, I don't think those people who have the 3000 points in the family accounts to redeem for a free SYD-BNE trip are the ones Qantas should be targeting. Shouldn't they be targeting those who have the bigger FF point balances earned through international paid J/F travel--even if it means keeping them happy in their leisure travel? What really peeves me the most is that it seems like WPs, of which I am one, are losing out, and those are the customers IMHO that Qantas should be trying to keep happiest.

ps. Yes, I actually do get a free haircut after every five hair color treatments- which I appreciate as a 'thank you' from my stylist for my loyalty. It's not the main reason I keep going back, but it's a nice gesture that I appreciate- which I think is the point.

AllyB

I guess it means I've been flying a "ridiculous" amount with his airline, for my points balance to be at such a "ridiculous point"!!!

desanmiguel

I am pretty clued up on QFF, but have little knowledge of other programs. My situation is this:

QFF platinum, about 250000 points.
Points are mostly from work travel in cheap seats (N,V); sometimes Business.
On leave for 12 months from Feb ... and planning RTW (DONE5).

I'd love to give FF the flick, but are there are realistic alternatives. AA appeals, but maybe I should bite the bullet and sign up with *A (any suggestions on the best *A FF program). Surely DJ will eventually become a regional *A member?

And con you get cheap *A RTW tix in CAI ... like you can for DONEx with OW.

Thanks

Kiwi Flyer

Yes cheap *A RTW in CAI (not as cheap as it used to be though) and closer to home in BKK. There is a thread in *A forum showing prices around the world.

The *A RTW products are quite different to xONEx though. Again, plenty of info on *A forum. There are good comparison threads and websites of the various *A FFPs, plus plenty of knowledgeable FTers of course. Suggest take a look at *A forum and post any questions there.

monsooncat

Loyalty programs ARE a requirement to compete in the airline industry - that's why they have them.

Dave Noble

If they are a requirement, then how come airlines like Virmin Blue do not have them ?

Dave

lokijuh

The more I think about it, these changes are really based on the following assumptions:
1) Can compete favorably with DJ on price at the low end --> move these pax to JQ - with points not an issue.
2) Domestically, QF still need people at the low price end to fill up the planes (at non-peak times) on the trunk routes so they can offer the frequency that suits corp travellers, so need something to stop them flying on DJ - hence provide a bit of a bonus for non-freq travellers on these shorter routes (fly 8 times, get one free). Also acts as insurance should DJ introduce a simple FF program in the Southwest style.
3) Get "moderate freq" flyers to WP & SG quicker to stop them going across to DJ, SQ, NZ & others, as you can probably tie them up with the 50% and 100% bonus points. At same time increase points required for such rewards to take into account all the extra points being given away.
4) Currently taking a lot of ongoing pain regarding upgrade availability particularly on main routes (LAX/LHR). Better to take the hit now, by removing it altogether than have this festering away for a few years. Also still allows people to get upgrades on lower yielding routes served by 2 class 744's with Dreamtime seats.
5) Forgo a few of the whingers at the top end of the market - let them go to SQ/CX/EK or whoever - you'll never please them - they just complain anyway and give QF a bad name.

I am sure they've done their market research and decided that the 50% and 100% bonus points, free access to QP's and other benefits are powerful enough to the stop defections associated with loss of upgrades & devaluation of points.

The question is - what is 1 point worth now?

Wongo

Out SC earning in most routes are down. Only 1-2 places there are gains. Even J get knocked back in some routes. Sad... sad...

http://www.geocities.com/wybb/OldVNew.xls


It is a rip off. If interested, might do a chart for upgrades as well. But heck, I've finished with Qantas for my HKG-ALK route. Probably fly direct on CX instead of a drop in Aussie. Now CX has stole most of the business.

I can't find a better way to chart the change. Was trying dots but they are hard to see. Trail and Error led me to bar chart.
Good day
Wongo

Kiwi Flyer

Why is zone 6 only 1000 miles wide (and zone 8 1400 to compensate) when the other zones are 1200? Zone 6 is 4801-5800 miles.