mad_atta

Bear in mind that pretty much all here at FT are mileage addicts of one form or another, so we are the sort of people *least* likely to fly Jetstar (and *most* likely to be outraged at the new QF FFP changes). Don't make the mistake of assuming that most other people out there are like us!

The real questions are whether Jetstar is proving successful for its target audience, and whether the new QF scheme will provide sufficient cost savings to QF to offset the loss of a few previously loyal customers who are offended by the devaluing of their points.

As Globaliser (at least I think that's who it was) said a few points back in this huge thread, every time there is a change like this to a FFP, people love to leap up and down, shriek in outrage and claim that they are moving to the opposition, but then the vast majority stay right where they are. As for less FFP-literate types, this will pass most of them right by.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not devaluing threads like these: they are interesting, entertaining, contain lots of great information and analysis, and provide the very useful opportunity for everyone to vent their frustration. But the fact remains that for many people, they are stuck with QF products domestically, and no other airline comes close to offering the breadth of routes from Australia internationally. Besides, the onboard product is pretty good. Meanwhile, few other FFPs offer the convenience of being liked to local credit cards, and none will allow upgrading on QF.

Personally, I usually fly *A internationally (and most *A FFPs are vastly more friendly to discount economy class flyers like myself) and for my limited domestic travel I am resigned to being a NB nobody. But if I flew QF a lot (which, as noted above, is the only practical option for many here, given limited competition and/or company travel policies) and credited the points elsewhere, it would be very frustrating not to be able to upgrade. Of course QF knows this and knows it can get away with it.

Having said all that, p*ssing off your regular customers is not a good long term strategy, as sooner or later QF will suffer some really aggressive full-service competition on the domestic / transpac routes... at which point many who have been waiting for a viable alternative may well jump ship.

ozstamps

Dude. ^

NM

Sorry, but I just felt we needed something from the lighter side at this time . But I only mentioned it once ... and I think I got away with it .

ThePope

I think the fact that the QAN shareprice has barely moved this week (currently $3.54, also the weeks high, $3.48 was the week's low on Tuesday)shows that despite some people claiming to move $XXk worth of travel to other carriers, the market doesn't think it will make any difference to the bottom line.
We might be amongst the 100 (?) or so most passionate FFs around, but even most WPs out there probably just see it as a nice little perk, not a crucial element to their (mainly work paid) travel.

Stryker

Spot on, Mr Pope.

willyroo

RichardMEL

Incidently I realised I never got the email from QF. I got the printed letter & brochure yesterday, but no email (yes, I checked the spam filters). Anyone else not get the email?

Also I was trying to explain the changes to my mum and she said "What's a Upgrade Credit"? :@ sheesh, she's got one and has no clue.... so perhaps QF aren't totally off with the "confusing" excuse. sigh.

I wish you could transfer the UC's! :-)

(she is pissed that she's been saving up for the 110k to London and now it's more....)

And I hate to say this, but the sharemarket would be neutral or mildly positive on this since lot giving upgrades until the last minute maximises revenue rather than giving away those seats that might *possibly* be sold.

On the idea of WP's clearing at 48 hours, SG's at 24 etc, this is just how UA does its domestic upgrades in the US (unless you're using a confirmed upgrade instrument). The top tier UGS's are allegedly done at 120 hours, the top FF tier 1K's at 100 hours, the 1P Prem Execs at 72 hours and thew Premiers at 48 or 24 hours (I forget). This is sort of like CL->WP->SG->PS->everyone else. It seems to work reasonably well and has done so for years and ensures your top tiers get first dibs.....

Brendan

I read this first, then jumped back to Page 13.
I expected the other b*s word, meaning "male bovines' f(a)eces."

Kiwi Flyer

For me I have the choice other than some domestic australia flights. Reportedly there are 400,000 other kiwis holding QFF cards. Wonder how many will defect to NZ?

ozflier

Sorrry but I can't easily find the answer .
Does the QFF 25 May 2005 changeover date refer to new points reqiuirements for bookings made with your points after that date for trips up to 330 days ahead
OR to award flights made after that date but booked prior to that date?
Ozflier

Kiwi Flyer

New rates apply to bookings made on or after 25 May 05.

Anyone care to bet it will be just about impossible to get through on the phone the week before?

ozflier

Ta for that - at least we have got up to April 2006 to take award trips under old rules Biu, as you say though - with everyone trying to unload their points by the end of May ,its going to be hard to get thru to award bookings.
ozflier

Kiwi Flyer

Not to mention availability may be tight in some areas if lots of points are being dumped (as is likely).

TWAforever

If I may offer a different humble perspective. As a flyer out of America, one thing I don't like about most programs here in the US is that you must fly x number of miles to get status. For example, on AA you need 50,000 points to reach Platinum (Sapphire). Even if you fly in paid F on AA you only receive 1.5 points/ mile meaning you still need to fly 33333 miles in paid F to get Sapphire.

OTOH, BA and QF use the status credit system that greatly rewards those who fly in paid premium cabins. With the new zonal QF SC accrual, QF just made it super easy and cheap to acquire elite status in oneworld flying here in the US.

I know that the devaluation of miles sucks and I agree that it is a bad situation for those who use QF as their mileage earning airline program, but for those of us that use QF as a vehicle for quickly earning elite status in OW and nothing more, then it has actually improved.

Just my two cents....

Wongo

Remember in NZ, Qantas spashed out free cards. I don't think anyone will be earning actively to earn tickets and upgrades.
I recon NZ public only look at the price. The minority of us fly Qantas as we are point related travelers. Not cost.... (be don't flame me)