"Evolution" - New TSA Blog
#121
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
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Posts: 15,180
Except I doubt this, I really do. We'll get the better X-ray machines and still be required to remove our laptops (or all electronics or liquids or whatever) "in an abundance of caution".
We got the sniffers, and even when they were in use, there was (presumably) an "overabundance of caution" (or another layer of security) that still required shoes off.
We got the sniffers, and even when they were in use, there was (presumably) an "overabundance of caution" (or another layer of security) that still required shoes off.
#122
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
Sad, always the threat!
Very civil, professional presentation. I found it some what informative, especially since law is not my area of expertise. That is until the end and the twist was put into it. Followed with a thinly disguised threat of the stick. Totally nullified the any good the presentation will have had. Well at least with this member of the traveling public. Just sad, so sad.
What a waste of a opportunity to communicate.
Would have responded on TSA's site, but concerns about it's setup, purpose, and security. Especially with her employment of that thinly disguised threat of the stick in her conclusion.
What a waste of a opportunity to communicate.
Would have responded on TSA's site, but concerns about it's setup, purpose, and security. Especially with her employment of that thinly disguised threat of the stick in her conclusion.
#123
Original Poster


Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, SkyMiles
Posts: 4,339
Another one bites the dust....
Where you can find this statement by one of our highly esteemed TSO's
TSO Tom is out said [on February 21, 2008 9:45 PM]...
[quote begins]Anonymous said...
Francine, what about the idea that this is a public forum and the TSA (the government) has no right to moderate comments that don't endanger national security, employee safety, etc. Isn't racist, offensive, vulgar, off topic, and promotional speech clearly protected?[quote ends]
February 21, 2008 5:21 PM
***********************************
I disagree with you anon, you see, you still have the right to keep your name off this forum. This is a TSA sponsored site, created and maintained by same, as a result, TSA has the right and obligation to keep the postings on this site free of slander, obscenities and what not. personally, anon, I'm getting a little tired of the complaints. I hear them every day at the checkpoint, "don't want to take my shoes off" don't want to take my liquids out, etc. It's annoying but we TSO's deal with it, alot of us don't even come in here because it just makes us angry to see such an unappreciattive public. That's the problem with Americans, we complain too much! But it is our contstituional right to do so isn't it? I originally volunteered to become part of the blog team, but this shall be my last post. TSO Tom is signing off the blog permanantly. I don't have time for this nonsense. Kip, you opened a flood gate of complaints, with good intentions, but its not getting through. I shall continue doing my job 110 percent every day, but the more I read the nonesense in here, the more irritated I get.
[quote begins]Anonymous said...
Francine, what about the idea that this is a public forum and the TSA (the government) has no right to moderate comments that don't endanger national security, employee safety, etc. Isn't racist, offensive, vulgar, off topic, and promotional speech clearly protected?[quote ends]
February 21, 2008 5:21 PM
***********************************
I disagree with you anon, you see, you still have the right to keep your name off this forum. This is a TSA sponsored site, created and maintained by same, as a result, TSA has the right and obligation to keep the postings on this site free of slander, obscenities and what not. personally, anon, I'm getting a little tired of the complaints. I hear them every day at the checkpoint, "don't want to take my shoes off" don't want to take my liquids out, etc. It's annoying but we TSO's deal with it, alot of us don't even come in here because it just makes us angry to see such an unappreciattive public. That's the problem with Americans, we complain too much! But it is our contstituional right to do so isn't it? I originally volunteered to become part of the blog team, but this shall be my last post. TSO Tom is signing off the blog permanantly. I don't have time for this nonsense. Kip, you opened a flood gate of complaints, with good intentions, but its not getting through. I shall continue doing my job 110 percent every day, but the more I read the nonesense in here, the more irritated I get.
#124
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Another one bites the dust....
Where you can find this statement by one of our highly esteemed TSO's
Where you can find this statement by one of our highly esteemed TSO's
#125




Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Ex Platinum & 1MM, DL PLT, Marriott LFT PLT, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,542
Another one bites the dust....
Where you can find this statement by one of our highly esteemed TSO's
Where you can find this statement by one of our highly esteemed TSO's
#126




Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,386
It's annoying but we TSO's deal with it, alot of us don't even come in here because it just makes us angry to see such an unappreciattive public. That's the problem with Americans, we complain too much! But it is our contstituional right to do so isn't it? I originally volunteered to become part of the blog team, but this shall be my last post. TSO Tom is signing off the blog permanantly. I don't have time for this nonsense. Kip, you opened a flood gate of complaints, with good intentions, but its not getting through.
Let me paraphrase:
"Y'all better bend over and like it. I'm protecting you from evil, and it's for your own good. You are ingrates. And, I really wish we didn't have a pesky thing like a constitution to get in our way. Kippy, your intention was to 'learn' the public, but it's really just about complaints and we don't, can't and shouldn't respond to complaints. I'll just go back and continue to stick it to the public"
#127
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
OK, so that's the one that was deleted! Very interesting indeed.
And BTW, TSO Tom, you are correct in this statement that the public is "unappreciattive." Why? Because more and more of the public are realizing that you are just promoting a dog and pony show.
Fortunately, the TSA blog is furthering that realization.
BTW, has any else noticed that the Inconsistencies blog is not accessible?
And BTW, TSO Tom, you are correct in this statement that the public is "unappreciattive." Why? Because more and more of the public are realizing that you are just promoting a dog and pony show.
Fortunately, the TSA blog is furthering that realization.
BTW, has any else noticed that the Inconsistencies blog is not accessible?
Last edited by doober; Feb 22, 2008 at 8:24 am Reason: to ask about Inconsistencies blog
#128




Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Ex Platinum & 1MM, DL PLT, Marriott LFT PLT, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,542
OK, so that's the one that was deleted! Very interesting indeed.
And BTW, TSO Tom, you are correct in this statement that the public is "unappreciattive." Why? Because more and more of the public are realizing that you are just promoting a dog and pony show.
Fortunately, the TSA blog is furthering that realization.
BTW, has any else noticed that the Inconsistencies blog is not accessible?
And BTW, TSO Tom, you are correct in this statement that the public is "unappreciattive." Why? Because more and more of the public are realizing that you are just promoting a dog and pony show.
Fortunately, the TSA blog is furthering that realization.
BTW, has any else noticed that the Inconsistencies blog is not accessible?
#132
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
#133
Original Poster


Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, SkyMiles
Posts: 4,339
This comment on the blog (the one where the counsel posted the law info) scares me:
Anonymous said...
Ms. Kerner's statement is an absolutely correct statement of the law. When you're at a Customs or TSA checkpoint, the Supreme Court has effectively held that the entire Bill of Rights magically disappears. At the checkpoint, a passenger has no rights whatsoever, and is presumed guilty until the screener or officer decides you're not. The only law that applies is the whim and caprice of the officer who happens to be handling your screening or interrogation. Regardless of what any official "policy" says, if you give the officer any reason to dislike you, he or she has complete authority to inspect and your person and/or dismember or confiscate your belongings as he or she sees fit, and to make you as miserable and humiliated as he or she deems necessary. And there's nothing you can do about it, as any hint of complaining or disobedience will only give reason to escalate the humiliating treatment.
The only thing you can do is to be fully cognizant of the fact that you have no rights and you're entirely at the mercy of the officer you're facing. Approaching the checkpoint with the correct humble attitude, and with a demeanor that shows full respect, submissive docility, and above all complete and immediate obedience to their every word, MAY reduce the likelihood of giving them reason to assert their authority. But there are no guarantees of anything.
TSOs, Customs agents, and anyone with a badge deserves total respect and complete submission to their absolute authority. Many of these officials are highly competent and professonal and merit respect because they and have earned it through the respect they show. But those who aren't highly competent and professional merit even more respect because they're the ones most eager to inflict punishment for failing to show respect.
Ms. Kerner's statement is an absolutely correct statement of the law. When you're at a Customs or TSA checkpoint, the Supreme Court has effectively held that the entire Bill of Rights magically disappears. At the checkpoint, a passenger has no rights whatsoever, and is presumed guilty until the screener or officer decides you're not. The only law that applies is the whim and caprice of the officer who happens to be handling your screening or interrogation. Regardless of what any official "policy" says, if you give the officer any reason to dislike you, he or she has complete authority to inspect and your person and/or dismember or confiscate your belongings as he or she sees fit, and to make you as miserable and humiliated as he or she deems necessary. And there's nothing you can do about it, as any hint of complaining or disobedience will only give reason to escalate the humiliating treatment.
The only thing you can do is to be fully cognizant of the fact that you have no rights and you're entirely at the mercy of the officer you're facing. Approaching the checkpoint with the correct humble attitude, and with a demeanor that shows full respect, submissive docility, and above all complete and immediate obedience to their every word, MAY reduce the likelihood of giving them reason to assert their authority. But there are no guarantees of anything.
TSOs, Customs agents, and anyone with a badge deserves total respect and complete submission to their absolute authority. Many of these officials are highly competent and professonal and merit respect because they and have earned it through the respect they show. But those who aren't highly competent and professional merit even more respect because they're the ones most eager to inflict punishment for failing to show respect.

