Checking firearms
Jun 21, 2011, 7:14 pm
#61
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
Jun 21, 2011, 7:16 pm
#62
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
I know what you are saying. You are saying that just because we have a gun in the case doesn't mean that you guys won't cut into it. I'm saying that cutting into it opens you and your agency to some risks.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:23 pm
#63
Join Date: May 2003
Location: At This Point, Only G*d Knows!
Posts: 3,467
Originally Posted by Combat Medic
A situation caused by the airlines and made worse by the TSA. But, let us look at it.
My case gets sent to the wrong airport. The TSA decides that they have to cut the locks off even though the TSA website says that they won't. So, far we have the TSA destroying private property.
Now the TSO freaks out and says that the gun can no longer fly since the case is no longer locked.
They then decide to give my property over to the police. The government now has possession of my property through no fault of my own. That is generally called theft.
Many police departments have a policy of never returning guns to a citizen. In this case I'm out thousands of dollars. Or maybe New York City will decide that I can only get my gun back if I get a New York City permit without concern that a normal person cannot do that.
So, I have to sue. I'm now out many thousands of dollars for a lawyer and even if I have a court order to return it, the cops still might not.
My case gets sent to the wrong airport. The TSA decides that they have to cut the locks off even though the TSA website says that they won't. So, far we have the TSA destroying private property.
Now the TSO freaks out and says that the gun can no longer fly since the case is no longer locked.
They then decide to give my property over to the police. The government now has possession of my property through no fault of my own. That is generally called theft.
Many police departments have a policy of never returning guns to a citizen. In this case I'm out thousands of dollars. Or maybe New York City will decide that I can only get my gun back if I get a New York City permit without concern that a normal person cannot do that.
So, I have to sue. I'm now out many thousands of dollars for a lawyer and even if I have a court order to return it, the cops still might not.
Something is clearly wrong, they (the airlines or TSA or both) should have a method for fixing mistakes. Either they (the airlines/TSA) don't care, have decided it is too expensive or lord knows.
Either way, we the flying public are out dollars (in physical property) and short of a miracle very little is going to change it.
I guess you can call me a Kettle/Sheeple/Whathave you, but I have resided myself to such sucky situations. Maybe I shouldn't but I have and while I agree it is not right, I know nothing is going to change it.
Dan
PS, I was talking with an airport cop (who moonlights as a security guard at my office) whom I am friendly with and he said that he (on TSA's request) has confiscated three guns from the airport he patrols due to broken locks, etc. Each and every time he has tried to reunite the gun with its owner. This cop is a genuinely good guy, he even drove one of the confiscated guns upto the owners house in the Northern end of county so the pax would not be out $$$.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:33 pm
#64
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
No. It is not. People on this thread misunderstand what actually happens. Yes, the carrier calls law enforcement to the scene, but is is law enforcement that seizes the unaccompanied firearm. It is then up to the firearm's rightful owner, that is the pax, to claim it from law enforcement.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:33 pm
#65
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
No, what I am saying is that we wouldn't know there is a gun in the bag....
Jun 21, 2011, 7:39 pm
#66
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
No. It is not. People on this thread misunderstand what actually happens. Yes, the carrier calls law enforcement to the scene, but is is law enforcement that seizes the unaccompanied firearm. It is then up to the firearm's rightful owner, that is the pax, to claim it from law enforcement.
Then the cops are opening themselves up for a civil rights lawsuit.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:39 pm
#67
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
Like the risk of having to pay for lost property? Its about the only risk they take.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:44 pm
#68
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
They can take custody of the weapons as part of their community caretaking function. Once an owner is identified who can lawfully possess the firearm then it is returned to him.
If the police dont believe that the owner is allowed to take possession of the firearm, then that is what the court is for (due process).
Jun 21, 2011, 7:48 pm
#69
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
No. It is not. People on this thread misunderstand what actually happens. Yes, the carrier calls law enforcement to the scene, but is is law enforcement that seizes the unaccompanied firearm. It is then up to the firearm's rightful owner, that is the pax, to claim it from law enforcement.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:49 pm
#70
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
And I have seen many cases where it hasn't. Look at New Orleans where the police still haven't returned all of the guns that they illegally seized. And this is just as bad since it is one government agency making the weapons unsecure so that another government agency can have an excuse to 'safekeep' them.
The problem came in when they could not identify the owners of the firearms.
Jun 21, 2011, 7:55 pm
#71
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
I'll look you up the next time we go thru SAT.
Jun 21, 2011, 8:00 pm
#72
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
police=government.
as part of their government responsibility, governments can secure firearms.
are you suggesting that anyone who comes across a firearm must find an FFL at 3AM?
Jun 21, 2011, 8:01 pm
#73
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
Um, no.
They can take custody of the weapons as part of their community caretaking function. Once an owner is identified who can lawfully possess the firearm then it is returned to him.
If the police dont believe that the owner is allowed to take possession of the firearm, then that is what the court is for (due process).
They can take custody of the weapons as part of their community caretaking function. Once an owner is identified who can lawfully possess the firearm then it is returned to him.
If the police dont believe that the owner is allowed to take possession of the firearm, then that is what the court is for (due process).
Jun 21, 2011, 9:52 pm
#74
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
Programs: US Airways Dividend Miles, American AAdvantage, Avis Preferred, Budget Rapid Rez, Hilton Honors
Posts: 1,145
The bottom line is that when a firearm is discovered with no owner present, the appropriate thing to do is turn it over to the police for safekeeping.
If the gun is in an unlocked bag, its not flying.
We all take that risk when traveling with firearms.
Jun 22, 2011, 7:44 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
Lets not try to make a big govt conspiracy where none exists.
The bottom line is that when a firearm is discovered with no owner present, the appropriate thing to do is turn it over to the police for safekeeping.
If the gun is in an unlocked bag, its not flying.
We all take that risk when traveling with firearms.
The bottom line is that when a firearm is discovered with no owner present, the appropriate thing to do is turn it over to the police for safekeeping.
If the gun is in an unlocked bag, its not flying.
We all take that risk when traveling with firearms.