EPIC to host TSA workshop ["Stripping of Freedom"] Jan. 6, 2011 in D.C.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:18 am
#61
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
My initial impressions:
1. I'm very intrigued about the points made by Ed Luttwak that not only are the scanners unnecessary, but actually may result in even LESS security because the clerks are distracted by the machines that much of the time are not even working.
2. The term "dragnet enforcement" used by Rush Holt is spot on. We now live in a country where every person is considered to be a suspect first. Mr. Holt notes that police in every municipality know that there are criminals amongst them. However, we don't subject our citizens to dragnet enforcement because we are scared that ONE of them may be a criminal.
1. I'm very intrigued about the points made by Ed Luttwak that not only are the scanners unnecessary, but actually may result in even LESS security because the clerks are distracted by the machines that much of the time are not even working.
2. The term "dragnet enforcement" used by Rush Holt is spot on. We now live in a country where every person is considered to be a suspect first. Mr. Holt notes that police in every municipality know that there are criminals amongst them. However, we don't subject our citizens to dragnet enforcement because we are scared that ONE of them may be a criminal.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:25 am
#62
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle, San Francisco, Cyberspace
Posts: 62
Agreed with TXagogo's points. Also I thought Chip Pitts (who used to run Amnesty International USA) made some great points about the moral issues underlying this. "Even if you don't mind having your genitals groped and naked pictures taken, do you really want to live in a country where your parents, children, wife, etc. is subject to this?"
Luttwack's presentation was sizzling, talking about how the TSA agents go to Israel on "fact-finding" missions and then ignore and distort whatever they're told. I also thought it was striking that the TSA was the only organization that didn't respond to IATA's vision document.
Luttwack's presentation was sizzling, talking about how the TSA agents go to Israel on "fact-finding" missions and then ignore and distort whatever they're told. I also thought it was striking that the TSA was the only organization that didn't respond to IATA's vision document.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:30 am
#63
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BLI or CLT
Programs: The usual suspects
Posts: 1,904
Agree about LESS security because of distraction of NoS.
I always opt out, and almost every time I opt out and get the groping, there is something "contraband" in my carry-on that is totally missed. I know some have said "If you get the grope, you also get the thorough hand search of your bag."
I have not had that experience at all - it's been one or the other. If the blue-shirt perv is busy with genitalia, she doesn't notice the full bottle of water or the box cutter.
Are we all getting the gaps in the stream at the same time? Mine is out right now.
I always opt out, and almost every time I opt out and get the groping, there is something "contraband" in my carry-on that is totally missed. I know some have said "If you get the grope, you also get the thorough hand search of your bag."
I have not had that experience at all - it's been one or the other. If the blue-shirt perv is busy with genitalia, she doesn't notice the full bottle of water or the box cutter.
Are we all getting the gaps in the stream at the same time? Mine is out right now.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:32 am
#64
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: A bright and happy place
Posts: 68
I agree that Ed Luttwak has made some excellent points. He's pointing out the larger issues, like the fact that the TSOs' job is basically to run a machine, not use their brains. The DHS thinks they can solve a complex problem by applying simplistic consumer behavior: let's buy a gizmo!
Jan 6, 2011, 8:34 am
#65
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle, San Francisco, Cyberspace
Posts: 62
Wow that was an awesome panel.
Before it seemed like we were getting the breaks at the same time, now I'm not so sure.
Also is anybody else unable to get to the video? My friend just gets a blank screen.
I'm really looking forward to this next panel -- Michael Roberts, Kate Hanni, Jim Babb, and Pablo Molina (a professor of ethics and technology)
Before it seemed like we were getting the breaks at the same time, now I'm not so sure.
Also is anybody else unable to get to the video? My friend just gets a blank screen.
I'm really looking forward to this next panel -- Michael Roberts, Kate Hanni, Jim Babb, and Pablo Molina (a professor of ethics and technology)
Last edited by jdp23; Jan 6, 2011 at 9:50 am
Jan 6, 2011, 8:43 am
#66
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Programs: US Gold
Posts: 627
For those who can't follow the stream the Twitter feed is at
http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23scantsa
I think there'll be some stuff on C-Span.
wg
http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23scantsa
I think there'll be some stuff on C-Span.
wg
Jan 6, 2011, 9:08 am
#68
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
I think I'll tape C-Span all day (which right now is showing Congress...the schedule in Tivo guide says "TBD", dammit). Someone directly in front is taping this but I can't see who it is.
I have a previously planned meeting and can't sit glued to this - which of course is what I would prefer to do!
If I get anything on C-Span I'll dump an MP4 on Gigasize or similar and link it here.
Aw, this is awesome!! SO encouraging to see. I'm loving James Babb.
I have a previously planned meeting and can't sit glued to this - which of course is what I would prefer to do!
If I get anything on C-Span I'll dump an MP4 on Gigasize or similar and link it here.
Aw, this is awesome!! SO encouraging to see. I'm loving James Babb.
Jan 6, 2011, 9:22 am
#69
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AA Gold (former Platinum), SPG Gold, SWA, UA, National Car, TSA Disparager Silver
Posts: 119
Agreed with TXagogo's points. Also I thought Chip Pitts (who used to run Amnesty International USA) made some great points about the moral issues underlying this. "Even if you don't mind having your genitals groped and naked pictures taken, do you really want to live in a country where your parents, children, wife, etc. is subject to this?"
Luttwack's presentation was sizzling, talking about how the TSA agents go to Israel on "fact-finding" missions and then ignore and distort whatever they're told. I also thought it was striking that the TSA was the only organization that didn't respond to IATA's vision document.
Luttwack's presentation was sizzling, talking about how the TSA agents go to Israel on "fact-finding" missions and then ignore and distort whatever they're told. I also thought it was striking that the TSA was the only organization that didn't respond to IATA's vision document.
Both panels are raising all of the relevant points clearly and cogently. Well done.
Jan 6, 2011, 9:24 am
#70
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
James Babb is fantastic. I am adding www.wewontfly.com to my favorites list on my laptop and have already "liked" it on facebook.
Jan 6, 2011, 9:32 am
#71
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
So's our own SpatialD.
This is even better than I had dared to hope. Wish they'd show the crowd, though. Any estimates on how many people were able to make it?
{Edit: Sounds like there's a lot of crowd noise...}
(Unfortunately all three C-Span channels are still showing programming regarding the Republican takeover of Congress. Apparently they're reading the Constitution on the House floor. Hope they're taking special note of Amendment 4.)
This is even better than I had dared to hope. Wish they'd show the crowd, though. Any estimates on how many people were able to make it?
{Edit: Sounds like there's a lot of crowd noise...}
(Unfortunately all three C-Span channels are still showing programming regarding the Republican takeover of Congress. Apparently they're reading the Constitution on the House floor. Hope they're taking special note of Amendment 4.)
Jan 6, 2011, 9:33 am
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Did I read that someone said that this is or will be on C-SPAN?
Jan 6, 2011, 9:38 am
#73
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
That was indeed mentioned, FW2M. I'm flipping from plain flavored C-Span to C-Span 2 and 3...I realize this conference was planned to coincide with the seating of the new Congress but unfortunately that's all TV is covering. Right now C-Span has the "ceremonial swearing in" of new House members...C-Span 2 is attempts to overturn the 2010 health care law, etc.
Someone is definitely taping this from the front row, though. Maybe they'll re-run it in the middle of the night. I'm getting only TBD as far as C-Span schedules however.
Someone is definitely taping this from the front row, though. Maybe they'll re-run it in the middle of the night. I'm getting only TBD as far as C-Span schedules however.
Jan 6, 2011, 9:39 am
#74
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle, San Francisco, Cyberspace
Posts: 62
Wow, what a great panel. I posted my notes at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...nse-panel.html
I'll try to find out how many people are there in person.
I'll try to find out how many people are there in person.