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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 12:25 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Does anyone really expect any airline to say in writing "Yeah the TSA sucks" ?

Get real.
Originally Posted by coachrowsey
It's not going to happen as you said.
That will happen during the next round of airline bankruptcies.


Meanwhile:
Dear Mr. Neil P. Paul,

As I'm sure you understand the relationship between revenues and employment levels, then you must appreciate the inevitable layoffs that will result when large numbers of customers reduce their flying or stop altogether.

I sincerely hope that you are one of the first on furlough.
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 12:54 pm
  #17  
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"Does anyone really expect any airline to say in writing "Yeah the TSA sucks"?

I knew they wouldn't admit the TSA was wrong. I got the response I expected in that regards. What I wanted to do was to simply add my name, even if it is just a number, to the list of unhappy flyers that have been contacting them.....the whole "strength in numbers" philosophy. A colleague told me today that a friend of hers just started working for Delta and that he is already overwhelmed with the number of complaints he's been receiving over the whole TSA issue. She says that he's trying to respond to them as politely as possible.

"Get real."

It's the TSA that needs to "get real".

"As an aside, I've noticed that some of the replies from some folks on here seem to be somewhat confrontational, particularly in this thread. This is an emotionally charged subject and we all feel passionately about this topic one way or another. All I'm saying is I don't see any point in people goading each other. Why can't we all just say our piece, agree or disagree, discuss as needed, and move on. Incendiary posts towards others, especially those who share the same views, are only going to decrease moral.

Thank you. All I wanted to do was to share my response in the hopes that we may learn something that will help us in our cause.

Speaking of learning something, once I was able to wade through all the redundancy, was that the "tone" seemed to indicate that Delta really doesn't seem terribly threatened by passengers claiming they will no longer fly. Hmmm.....

"Neil Paul is most likely a desk-bound CS person in India..."

Is that kind of like "Peggy" in Russia?
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 1:18 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by slh14
"Does anyone really expect any airline to say in writing "Yeah the TSA sucks"?

I knew they wouldn't admit the TSA was wrong. I got the response I expected in that regards. What I wanted to do was to simply add my name, even if it is just a number, to the list of unhappy flyers that have been contacting them.....the whole "strength in numbers" philosophy. A colleague told me today that a friend of hers just started working for Delta and that he is already overwhelmed with the number of complaints he's been receiving over the whole TSA issue. She says that he's trying to respond to them as politely as possible.

"Get real."

It's the TSA that needs to "get real".

"As an aside, I've noticed that some of the replies from some folks on here seem to be somewhat confrontational, particularly in this thread. This is an emotionally charged subject and we all feel passionately about this topic one way or another. All I'm saying is I don't see any point in people goading each other. Why can't we all just say our piece, agree or disagree, discuss as needed, and move on. Incendiary posts towards others, especially those who share the same views, are only going to decrease moral.

Thank you. All I wanted to do was to share my response in the hopes that we may learn something that will help us in our cause.

Speaking of learning something, once I was able to wade through all the redundancy, was that the "tone" seemed to indicate that Delta really doesn't seem terribly threatened by passengers claiming they will no longer fly. Hmmm.....

"Neil Paul is most likely a desk-bound CS person in India..."

Is that kind of like "Peggy" in Russia?
+1

Here's the part of the Delta response that really got to me:

"We understand that some requirements may make it difficult for passengers to travel and it may require them to make a decision on whether it is in their
best interest to utilize air travel. While we are sorry that it may
require some passengers not travel by air, we follow all directives
handed down to us from the higher authorities."

They're not sorry, but they are going to be
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 1:25 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by slh14
Speaking of learning something, once I was able to wade through all the redundancy, was that the "tone" seemed to indicate that Delta really doesn't seem terribly threatened by passengers claiming they will no longer fly. Hmmm.....
Delta's long had a rather arrogant attitude that their customers will throw money at them no matter what.

The best example was the sLUT debacle in 2001-2004. They did a complete reversal over the next 3 years. Likewise, the way they shafted NW elites at the beginning of the merger. They've since reversed almost all of the changes. This is no different.

For now, Anderson is on record w/ FlyerTalkers at the recent ATLDL DO as say that TSA is doing a good job. When it eventually hurts their revenues, they'll change their tune.

Last edited by MikeMpls; Dec 8, 2010 at 7:22 pm
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 4:10 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Does anyone really expect any airline to say in writing "Yeah the TSA sucks" ?

Get real.
Here's what I expect an airline to say:
  • The TSA's procedures are effective only on amateur terrorists.
  • Governments should not grant visas to known terrorists as the USA did in the case of 2009 Christmas Day on board bombing attempt.
  • The most effective measures since 9/11 are a physical secure cockpit door, and passengers and crew that no longer cooperate with hijackers. Since 9/11, these measures have repeated thwarted attempts at terrorism
  • Despite the horrific events of 9/11 the risk of airline terrorism is extremely low, and is far less than the risk of a mishap occurring while driving to and from an airports.
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 4:50 pm
  #21  
 
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My reply from Southwest:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate the opportunity to address your concern regarding one of the screening processes used by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA).

It's important to explain that the implementation of imaging technology was determined solely by the TSA and not by the airlines. The TSA has a responsibility to ensure the security of the traveling public. However, they also recognize that there is a delicate balance between privacy and security; therefore, imaging technology is optional for all passengers. Please visit the TSAs web site for more information regarding this screening method.

As you may know, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is implementing new pat-down procedures at airport security checkpoints nationwide. According to the TSA, pat-down procedures are part of a multi-layered approach to security and are used on only a small percentage of passengers, mainly during the secondary screening process. It's important to explain that the TSA, not the airlines, is responsible for the screening process to ensure the security of the traveling public. Please visit the TSA's web site at www.tsa.gov for more information regarding this and other security procedures. We appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts, and we look forward to welcoming you onboard when your plans call for air travel to the cities we serve.

Sincerely,

Marco, Southwest Airlines
And the letter I got from Senator Bill Nelson:
Dear Mr. Wimpie:

Thank you for contacting me about the Transportation Security Administrations (TSA) new "pat down" rules. I understand your concern that these procedures are too invasive.

While I was pleased to hear Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announce that the TSA will review these procedures and make changes as necessary, stopping terrorist remains the ultimate goal.

I will keep your views in mind if this issue comes before the Senate. Thank you again for taking the time to contact my office, and please do not hesitate to do so in the future.

Sincerely,
Senator Bill Nelson
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 5:04 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Wimpie
And the letter I got from Senator Bill Nelson:
While I was pleased to hear Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announce that the TSA will review these procedures and make changes as necessary, stopping terrorist remains the ultimate goal.
If stopping terrorism is the ultimate goal, why won't most of these Senators discuss techniques that actually WILL stop terrorists? Why oh why do they shut off their brains and rubber-stamp anything TSA says?

(Rhetorical...)
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 5:09 pm
  #23  
 
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I think all the senators got together and wrote the same letter with slight variations.
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 6:05 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by LessO2
Then don't give Delta Airlines any more of your business. I have done my part since 1999 in not giving Delta a dime of my business purely on how they conduct business.

If you want to go further, that's your choosing. But when you say "we," don't include me. While I am disappointed in the response Delta issued the OP, further action towards an airline beyond with our wallet seems pointless.

Are you going to walk in Atlanta and point out your displeasure with Delta? Salt Lake City? JFK? To me, if someone said to me their frustration was over a boilerplate response in a letter, yeah, I would shake my head and move on.

If you're really intent on change with the TSA, and are SERIOUS about doing it (there are a lot of internet tough guys in this forum, frankly), then contact your Congresscritters, contact your local airport authority, contact the media, organize and start a 527 group.

Good luck. Let us know what you will be doing.
An excellent response. You are getting quite good at those IMO.
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 7:18 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by slh14
It's what you'd expect.....we have to do what the TSA says.....the security measures are there for your safety.....blah, blah, blah.....

"Thank you for sharing your concerns. These procedures are conducted by
the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and are required by
federal law. On behalf of everyone at Delta Air Lines, be assured we
will continue to work with the TSA to minimize the inconvenience to our
passengers while at the same time maintaining passenger security.

I sincerely regret your disappointment with the new Advanced Imaging
Technology (AIT) also commonly referred to as full body scanner
technology. As you may know, this system produces images of the body in
order to detect potential threats concealed underneath passengers'
clothing that could have possibly gone undetected with the current
method.

Further, please know I recognize your frustration and the inconvenience
caused by the airport security process. These procedures are conducted
by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and are required by
federal law. We realize the inconvenience that security requirements
impose upon our passengers, and we will continue to work with the TSA to
minimize the inconvenience to our passengers while at the same time
maintaining passenger security.

Nevertheless, I hope you will understand that safety remains the first
and foremost priority for all airlines and government agencies; I want
to ensure you it is also the guide for our day-to-day operations. While
federal regulations prohibit us from discussing the criteria used for
security decisions and we acknowledge they may be invasive and
disruptive, they serve to make flying safer for everyone. We understand
that some requirements may make it difficult for passengers to travel
and it may require them to make a decision on whether it is in their
best interest to utilize air travel. While we are sorry that it may
require some passengers not travel by air, we follow all directives
handed down to us from the higher authorities.

Also, the manner in which security procedures are conducted is mandated
by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and other government
agencies. Delta will continue to work closely with such agencies to
provide the highest level of security possible, while at the same time
minimizing passenger inconvenience.

I hope I have been able to resolve any concerns you have about our
service. As our valued SkyMiles Member, your business is important to us
and given the opportunity of serving you in the future, I am confident
Delta will not only meet but exceed your expectations.
Sincerely,

Neil P. Paul
Coordinator, Customer Care
Delta Air Lines/KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
This is worse than what I got from AA, Southwest and Jet Blue. But maybe about what one would expect. These guys need to know that the TSA will be, very shortly, costing them business because people will be choosing to not travel at all, take the train or bus or drive themselves.
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 8:14 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by slh14
It's what you'd expect.....we have to do what the TSA says.....the security measures are there for your safety.....blah, blah, blah.....

"Thank you for sharing your concerns. These procedures are conducted by
the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and are required by
federal law. On behalf of everyone at Delta Air Lines, be assured we
will continue to work with the TSA to minimize the inconvenience to our
passengers while at the same time maintaining passenger security.

I sincerely regret your disappointment with the new Advanced Imaging
Technology (AIT) also commonly referred to as full body scanner
technology. As you may know, this system produces images of the body in
order to detect potential threats concealed underneath passengers'
clothing that could have possibly gone undetected with the current
method.

Further, please know I recognize your frustration and the inconvenience
caused by the airport security process. These procedures are conducted
by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and are required by
federal law. We realize the inconvenience that security requirements
impose upon our passengers, and we will continue to work with the TSA to
minimize the inconvenience to our passengers while at the same time
maintaining passenger security.

Nevertheless, I hope you will understand that safety remains the first
and foremost priority for all airlines and government agencies; I want
to ensure you it is also the guide for our day-to-day operations. While
federal regulations prohibit us from discussing the criteria used for
security decisions and we acknowledge they may be invasive and
disruptive, they serve to make flying safer for everyone. We understand
that some requirements may make it difficult for passengers to travel
and it may require them to make a decision on whether it is in their
best interest to utilize air travel. While we are sorry that it may
require some passengers not travel by air, we follow all directives
handed down to us from the higher authorities.

Also, the manner in which security procedures are conducted is mandated
by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and other government
agencies. Delta will continue to work closely with such agencies to
provide the highest level of security possible, while at the same time
minimizing passenger inconvenience.

I hope I have been able to resolve any concerns you have about our
service. As our valued SkyMiles Member, your business is important to us
and given the opportunity of serving you in the future, I am confident
Delta will not only meet but exceed your expectations.
Sincerely,

Neil P. Paul
Coordinator, Customer Care
Delta Air Lines/KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
The two words that immediately come to mind are "boiler plate."
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 9:32 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by slh14
"Thank you for sharing your concerns. These procedures are conducted by
the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and are required by
federal law.
On behalf of everyone at Delta Air Lines, be assured we
will continue to work with the TSA to minimize the inconvenience to our
passengers while at the same time maintaining passenger security.


I sincerely regret your disappointment with the new Advanced Imaging
Technology (AIT) also commonly referred to as full body scanner
technology. As you may know, this system produces images of the body in
order to detect potential threats concealed underneath passengers'
clothing that could have possibly gone undetected with the current
method.


Further, please know I recognize your frustration and the inconvenience
caused by the airport security process. These procedures are conducted
by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and are required by
federal law.
We realize the inconvenience that security requirements
impose upon our passengers, and we will continue to work with the TSA to
minimize the inconvenience to our passengers while at the same time
maintaining passenger security.


Nevertheless, I hope you will understand that safety remains the first
and foremost priority for all airlines and government agencies; I want
to ensure you it is also the guide for our day-to-day operations. While
federal regulations prohibit us from discussing the criteria used for
security decisions and we acknowledge they may be invasive and
disruptive, they serve to make flying safer for everyone.
We understand
that some requirements may make it difficult for passengers to travel
and it may require them to make a decision on whether it is in their
best interest to utilize air travel. While we are sorry that it may
require some passengers not travel by air, we follow all directives
handed down to us from the higher authorities.


Also, the manner in which security procedures are conducted is mandated
by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and other government
agencies.
Delta will continue to work closely with such agencies to
provide the highest level of security possible, while at the same time
minimizing passenger inconvenience.


I hope I have been able to resolve any concerns you have about our
service.
As our valued SkyMiles Member, your business is important to us
and given the opportunity of serving you in the future, I am confident
Delta will not only meet but exceed your expectations.
Even for boiler plate this is bad. I had to color-code it. Here's the short version.
The bad stuff? It's not us, it's the TSA. See? Not our fault. Gov't.
If things get better, though, that's because of us. Yay, Delta!!
We think you must be an idiot, so we'll explain what the machine does, tell you it makes you safer, and hope that fixes everything.
Oh, and they forgot to mention the underpants bomber. I thought there was a federal regulation that said you had to mention the jockey jihadist every time you justify the NoS.
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Old Dec 8, 2010 | 9:34 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl
Oh, and they forgot to mention the underpants bomber. I thought there was a federal regulation that said you had to mention the jockey jihadist every time you justify the NoS.
+1

lawl
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Old Dec 9, 2010 | 12:12 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl
Even for boiler plate this is bad. I had to color-code it. Here's the short version.
The bad stuff? It's not us, it's the TSA. See? Not our fault. Gov't.
If things get better, though, that's because of us. Yay, Delta!!
We think you must be an idiot, so we'll explain what the machine does, tell you it makes you safer, and hope that fixes everything.
Oh, and they forgot to mention the underpants bomber. I thought there was a federal regulation that said you had to mention the jockey jihadist every time you justify the NoS.
RadioGirl does it again! ^

Seriously - can we get you on a PR campaign? LOL
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Old Dec 9, 2010 | 7:14 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl
I thought there was a federal regulation that said you had to mention the jockey jihadist every time you justify the NoS.
And claim that the scanners were deployed solely in response to that incident.

Be careful NOT to reverse the cause and effect though.
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