It does, and the people have spoken, and better security at airports is what they have demanded. I realize that there are always going to be those out there that either don�t believe that, or that don�t want what the majority of the citizens want, but that is just the way things are. It�s a part of life in this country that we just have to live with. I know, but you can complain and stamp your feet all week long but its not going to change the fact that the majority of this nations citizens have decided to support the government�s actions. (sigh)

Irrelevant. It seems to me that despite your brothers sacrifice that you didn�t learn the less he was teaching to us all. There are many types of sacrifice.

Also irrelevant. This was your brothers sacrifice, his service and his decision, not yours. I did my time, I directly served my country in the military for more than a decade. Additionally I served my country as a foster parent for 2 decades, and continue to serve my country today as a member of the TSA. I am proud of my record of service, and your opinion on the matter is of no consequence. But I am also proud of your brothers service, and his sacrifice.

Your position being what? What makes your position more righteous than mine? What makes your position, your opinion, more valid than mine?

This thread was not supposed to be about you or me. Not about what I believe or what you believe. It was supposed to be about another opinion, someone else�s opinion that I thought might be of interest to a few of the posters here, maybe provoke some reasoned discussion and thoughtful commentary about what �might� be realistic. Thanks awfully for taking us off track.

Actually, we find on the average of 10 firearms (loaded and unloaded) each week at the checkpoints. We also find clubs, knives, and other types of weapons to me measured only in metric tons. Hundreds of thousands, every month. Hazardous materials? Also measured in tons. Explosives? Not tons certainly, but far more than anyone here might imagine.

Oh we find them sir, every minute of every hour of every day.

You are so removed from reality, Ron, that I feel sorry for you.

Ever find explosives or "hazardous materials" in someone's butt crack?

What about all the things you miss?

Why aren't those being used on planes?

You sir are reading far too much into a simple question. I posted it because it caused me to think, it caused me to view the question from a different direction, and to reassess my own opinion on the subject.

I posted it because I thought that the folks here might be able to glean some measure of the truth in an otherwise polarized debate, that they might have a moment of pause and a thoughtful response. Intelligent debate. I honestly should have known better.

I honestly hope that they are doing all of this as well. I am a very small cog in the great machine of life. I can�t tell you what the policy makers are thinking, what they are trying to achieve other than what they release for public consumption. I can give you the benefit of my experience, my expertise, and my opinion, but I can�t guarantee what�s going to happen next week at any checkpoint, not even my own. No one at my level can. I call myself TSORon because I have chosen to not hide the fact that I am a TSO, or what I do, or where my knowledge comes from. I am not a senior anything here, just another worker-bee, and have never said otherwise. And �held to a different standard� be dammed. If the folks here choose to do so then that is their choice, not mine. I have my own standards, and I�ll stick to those thank you.

Now, the original question is not one that I have ever seen in this forum. Not once. Given its uniqueness, and its thought provoking nature, I decided to share it with an audience that might just see it for more than what it is. I have no doubt that is has done just that, you coming out of your lurker-hood as you have proves this. No matter your personal opinions on this matter, it has caused you to comment when you otherwise most likely would have not. This makes the original post worth-while.

As with the colonial days, it is the behavior of the government that has turned many against it. I think American bureaucrats are very insular, unwilling to consider that any kind of response to threats is possible other than what they have thought up themselves. I wonder if TSO's even travel. I wonder if they get screened abroad and think mockingly "this will never stop the terrorists". As with so much that is done with America, ingenuity does not begin and end at America's borders. All over the world, governments are doing preventive work. Where else but America is it leading to citizen rebellion? You want to blame that on the CITIZENS? And America has one of the most HATED governments in the world. That, too, has something to do with how the people who have chosen government jobs behave.

Clearly a majority of this nation's citizens neither understand nor particularly care about their constitutional rights and freedoms, but that doesn't make it right to stow them and cede authority to totalitarians.



Hey, how dare you.

I'm not retailing fascism with false promises of unachievable safety. I believe in American freedoms and accept the accompanying slight risks.

You know, normally dialogue with peoples' political opponents relaxes tensions, promotes enlightenment, and leads to mutual respect. But here I'm feeling the opposite effects. Even Vietnam strategists knew they had to win hearts and minds, not pound people into submission.

And TSA wonders why it's now despised by thinking Americans of all poltical persuasions.

You have an interesting point. Are the functionaries that run the TSA blind to theories from outside of their little circle? I honestly can�t answer that, and to be even more honest neither can anyone posting to TS/S. Sure they are going to have their opinions, just as I have mine, but none of us can be sure. Personally, I believe that they are taking from other agencies what they believe is the best practices and leave the chaff on the side. BDO�s for example. Israel uses the same type of screening, and while here the Israeli version is given very high marks the US version earns nothing but derision (blind bias at its best IMO).

People hate power, they hate prosperity, they hate the freedoms we cherish. If we have one of the most hated government on the planet as you suggest, then why is the USA having to deal with a massive level of illegal immigration? Why does it seem that everyone wants to come here? Why are people not leaving the USA and going to other countries to emigrate? Sorry, that argument just does not hold water. It�s called jealousy.

Isn�t that one of the 7 deadly sins?

See, there ya go again. "Chaff". As if America somehow has SO much more terrorist experience than the rest of the world. ONE event. ONE. Have you any idea how many times terrorist have struck in other parts of the world? Yet, once again America has decided to lecture to the world, to consider the product of DECADES of experience as "chaff". And that's why no one will ever teach TSA anything.

Nope. Jealousy isn't one of the 7 deadly sins. Envy is, though. And there's a difference.

I've been a manager in a federal LEO organization (a real LEO org., not like TSA's "square badges") for nearly 20 years. Thus I start w/ a presumption of goodwill and competence towards LEGITIMATE and COMPETENT steps to safeguard flying.

TSA has long since left behind either of those benchmarks and has become an out of control, unprofessional, arrogant, heavyhanded fascistic tool that does more to prove that the terrorists have won than any actual attack ...

We've handed over our freedoms in an absurdly ineffective and hole-laden kabuki security theatre, and your positing that those who are offended by TSA's lack of professionalism and its propagandistic bombast somehow give aid and comfort to the enemy only underscores the failure of you and your employer.

My colleagues and I would think TSA is a joke, only there is nothing funny about (a) its failure to effectively protect us; and (b) its absurdly incompetent and arrogant power grabs combining ignorance of scientific and technical peer-reviewed data with wholesale disregard for personal dignity and constitutional rights.

I'm sorry, your facts are a bit out of date. According to the Global Terrorism Database the current number of terrorist attacks is in the area of 2264 (http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/...px?country=217). And I'm pretty sure that the database does not have them all.

We have a pretty significant terrorist problem in our country, but those who do not pay attention to whats going on tend to miss these things.

Fendertweed, thank you for this. Virtually all the professional military personnel I know have an acute, clear understanding of the American system and where the military fits in. They know precisely what they're defending. They're privately infuriated and sickened by TSA tactics. (For that matter even ground-level LEOs in airports often let us know they find TSA ridiculous.) They know the difference between brutalism and patriotism. For this reason I have no worries about a "Seven Days in May" military coup d'etat scenario in this country, but significant worry about the expansionist agenda of a repressive, brutalist, punitive TSA at war with its own citizens.

It is no accident that the military ranks among our country's most respected institutions, in or out of government, while TSA comes in just about last. The main move TSA has made to promote respect for its forces was to... switch to a different colored shirt. Almost funny. Almost.

I openly admit who I work for. I do so knowing that 99% of the comments written here are very much in opposition to my agency. Its a level of honesty I don't see in your post.

I agree.

The problem is, you haven't GIVEN THEM better security. You've just given them more and called it better.