A Different Perspective
Nov 25, 2010 | 11:15 am
#16
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Originally Posted by TSORon
Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
Originally Posted by TSORon
I sincerely hope that one day you will understand that freedom is not free.
And considering how many TSOs spend their shifts slugging down Starbucks, screaming at innocent Americans and scoping cute girls for the Nude-o-Scopes while my brother's remains lie in a wrecked airplane at the bottom of the Caribbean Sea, perhaps we'd better not start comparing notes on duty and sacrifice, hmm?
Don't condescend to your public, sir. And especially not people in my position.
Last edited by BearX220; Nov 25, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Nov 25, 2010 | 11:17 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 99
seems to me TSA is spending a lot more time looking at our private parts for weapons, etc., than our government did looking for WMD...
in both cases, they don't seem to find anything.
at what point are random searches of homes going to start?
if they can't find the goods on air travelers, where will they look next?
in both cases, they don't seem to find anything.
at what point are random searches of homes going to start?
if they can't find the goods on air travelers, where will they look next?
Nov 25, 2010 | 11:24 am
#19
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For a start.
Nov 25, 2010 | 11:42 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 342
Since 9/11 the US Federal Govt has REPEATEDLY raped americans of their rights, freedoms and liberties.
the Patriot Act.
Warrantless wire tapping
immunity given to telecoms against lawsuits and criminal charges
the creation of DHS
Need I mention Katrina and the thousands of weapons ILLEGALLY siezed by the US Govt?
Peaceful protesters who have been harassed and arrested by the Govt
Google RNC Protest in St Paul...
the term 'tea bagger' is a sexually explicit term
the DMCA act which forbids any person or group from reverse engineering any program. Meaning that electronic voting machines are off limits to public scrutiny
Election fraud on a national basis
States, such as NY wanting to make any gun larger than a .22 calibre ILLEGAL to even own
the Govt sponsoring forcing ammunition manafactuers to code each and every round with a code so the shell casing can be traced back to its 'owner'
The 'wants' of the govt to outlaw any weapon that can accurately hit a target 1 mile away.
freedom of speach violations imposed by our govt, I remember wasnt there a lady from the Dept of Agriculture fired for speaking her mind against the govt?
a 10,000 plus word dictionary that scans every email sent or recieved with in the US by the NSA
The forced logging of the govt to ISPs of every website you visit... forever.
GPS enabled cell phones - but you cant turn off the GPS part
Enhanced Drivers Licenses
and thats not even the tip of the ice berg, all in the name of 'fighting terrorism'
Now, men women and children of all ages are forced to undergo forced strip searches and sexual assualt before board and air plane, and soon to be installed at every major MSS transit station in the country. This isnt about 'terrorists' its about control. Removing freedoms, rights and liberties of the american populace.
Dont even get me started on the FORCED wage reduction and inflation occurring with in the US
the Patriot Act.
Warrantless wire tapping
immunity given to telecoms against lawsuits and criminal charges
the creation of DHS
Need I mention Katrina and the thousands of weapons ILLEGALLY siezed by the US Govt?
Peaceful protesters who have been harassed and arrested by the Govt
Google RNC Protest in St Paul...
the term 'tea bagger' is a sexually explicit term
the DMCA act which forbids any person or group from reverse engineering any program. Meaning that electronic voting machines are off limits to public scrutiny
Election fraud on a national basis
States, such as NY wanting to make any gun larger than a .22 calibre ILLEGAL to even own
the Govt sponsoring forcing ammunition manafactuers to code each and every round with a code so the shell casing can be traced back to its 'owner'
The 'wants' of the govt to outlaw any weapon that can accurately hit a target 1 mile away.
freedom of speach violations imposed by our govt, I remember wasnt there a lady from the Dept of Agriculture fired for speaking her mind against the govt?
a 10,000 plus word dictionary that scans every email sent or recieved with in the US by the NSA
The forced logging of the govt to ISPs of every website you visit... forever.
GPS enabled cell phones - but you cant turn off the GPS part
Enhanced Drivers Licenses
and thats not even the tip of the ice berg, all in the name of 'fighting terrorism'
Now, men women and children of all ages are forced to undergo forced strip searches and sexual assualt before board and air plane, and soon to be installed at every major MSS transit station in the country. This isnt about 'terrorists' its about control. Removing freedoms, rights and liberties of the american populace.
Dont even get me started on the FORCED wage reduction and inflation occurring with in the US
Nov 25, 2010 | 11:51 am
#21
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,129
Having had my aviator brother killed while flying for the United States Navy I think I'm pretty well acquainted with that concept, thank you. And I think I know what he'd say about the current tragic state of the nation he died defending. He's consider TSA, and its critics-are-traitors line of reasoning, a malignant perversion.
And considering how many TSOs spend their shifts slugging down Starbucks, screaming at innocent Americans and scoping cute girls for the Nude-o-Scopes while my brother's remains lie in a wrecked airplane at the bottom of the Caribbean Sea, perhaps we'd better not start comparing notes on duty and sacrifice, hmm?
Don't condescend to your public, sir. And especially not people in my position.
Don't condescend to your public, sir. And especially not people in my position.
Nov 25, 2010 | 11:52 am
#22
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
You can lie about history all you like, but we can still go back and read the newspaper articles and executive orders that were written at the time. You'll only fool the lazy.
And of course the government rarely explains what it does in detail, and for well known and sometimes very good reasons. Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You dont, oh well.
Why do you feel that government must curry public support? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
Nov 25, 2010 | 12:06 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 60
This is even more important when individual rights are concerned. For example, the fact that TSA won't tell people what its agents are allowed to do in a search is bizarre and unAmerican because this nation is founded on understand and defending personal rights. How can you defend your rights when you don't know what they are? We get them piecemeal, like "no open hand genital groping of children (possibly)", or "no hands in underwear" - but what that translates into is that few people can recognize when the TSO is crossing the line.
Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You don’t, oh well.
Why do you feel that government must “curry public support”? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
TSO’s have no arrest powers other than that of every citizen. We are not law enforcement officers, please stop indicating that we are.
I sincerely hope that one day you will understand that freedom is not free.
Nov 25, 2010 | 12:09 pm
#24
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And, sorry, TSA has to assume a lot of the blame (along with both the current and past administration). TSA has decided, unilaterally, that Constitutional guarantees are less important than the illusion of safety (we've already discussed, many times, why TSA's measures are ineffective, both in terms of its omissions as well as its affirmative actions). Even assuming TSA's measures were effective, the agency has chosen to implement them through poorly trained, poorly educated TSOs (as compared to true intelligence and/or military professionals), too many of whom are reminiscent of the jack-booted thugs typical of fascist dictatorships.
That anyone could think that criticism of this inefficient, bullying, costly, ineffective organization is a victory for the terrorists is, frankly, ridiculous.
Nov 25, 2010 | 1:36 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Programs: Delta DM, Continental PE
Posts: 230
al-qaeda has won, its turned the american public against the govt not the tsa
unlike north korea, any american is free to throw the "bs flag" at anyone, including the president.
the day the people lose or give away that right will mark the beginning of a very short endgame for the USA as a nation
SR
Nov 25, 2010 | 1:55 pm
#26
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 13
Light Bulb!
And of course the government rarely explains what it does in detail, and for well known and sometimes very good reasons. Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You don’t, oh well.
Why do you feel that government must “curry public support”? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
Why do you feel that government must “curry public support”? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
"Listen to us, we know what's best for you."
"Because we said so! You don't need to know why!"
"We don't care if don't like it, go to your room."
"You're lucky we let you step out of this house at all."
Many people have forgotten that we, in America, born as citizens have an inherent right to our own lives, while it's the government that's limited in how it "lives".
Obviously, there is a role that government plays in the protection of it's citizens, but it has to be done with the understanding that the citizen's opinions and feelings ARE to be respected and their continued rights to life and liberty remain intact. And it really bothers me that TSORon doesn't understand this. Maybe one day...
Last edited by Justicequest; Nov 25, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Nov 25, 2010 | 4:04 pm
#27
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 966
+eleventybajillion. Getting their opponents to pay out of their own pockets to shred their own way of life, to destroy their own rights, was perhaps Al Qaeda's crowning achievement.
Although getting allegedly-well-intentioned members of the American people (such as Ron, or the "anything for security!" crowd) to serve as cheerleaders for that destruction is way up there, too.
Nov 25, 2010 | 4:24 pm
#28
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: RDU
Posts: 8,344
TSORon, I'm one of those folks who sit in the political middle who think you get beaten up too much in this forum. Not that it matters (who am I) but I've even agreed with your opinion in some threads. However, I've lost a lot of respect for you after reading your post and some of the comments in this thread. You may not be the anonymous poster, but by posting their opinion and stating your initial question, you basically suggest you agree that anyone who disagrees with the TSA is automatically supporting terrorists.
I really want to believe that the government and TSA are trying to protect us. I want to believe that they care about the public and are trying to minimize the disruptions to flyers. It just gets harder and harder to believe that when I see a post like yours. If you're a senior person at your airport, you have a responsibility to represent the truth to the public. This forum is all about providing your opinion, but you should understand that calling yourself TSORon means you will be held to a different standard than someone called "bumblebee123".
I really want to believe that the government and TSA are trying to protect us. I want to believe that they care about the public and are trying to minimize the disruptions to flyers. It just gets harder and harder to believe that when I see a post like yours. If you're a senior person at your airport, you have a responsibility to represent the truth to the public. This forum is all about providing your opinion, but you should understand that calling yourself TSORon means you will be held to a different standard than someone called "bumblebee123".
Nov 25, 2010 | 4:33 pm
#29
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Upstate NY or FL or inbetween
Programs: US former CP Looking for a new airline to love me
Posts: 1,692
<snip>
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The TSA does its very best to make those American values available to every person who feels the need to board a commercial aircraft. Your opinion about its operating principals" (sic) is just that, opinion. And ignorance is really a poor excuse for it.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The TSA does its very best to make those American values available to every person who feels the need to board a commercial aircraft. Your opinion about its operating principals" (sic) is just that, opinion. And ignorance is really a poor excuse for it.
Well, unfortunately things did not go as well as I thought. I just talked to Mom, and more details emerged. She didn't want to share them while in the car with my daughter.
When she was pulled away for the grope, she says she started to tell the woman doing the groping that her right breast is still very tender and has healing surgical wounds on it, but the woman actually put her hand up in front of my mothers face, as if to signal her to shut up! My mother, terrified of another horrible experience, quickly did just that she shut up.
I find this shocking, given what recently happened to the man with the urostomy bag. Even with all that publicity, including a phone call from John Pistole to the man to apologize, is it STILL not understood by TSA agents that they need to allow their victims to tell them about their medical issues???
The agent used the back of her hand to press in and circle the entire exterior of each breast including the sore one. Sure enough, it hurt. But my mother didnt say a word just stood there wincing and took it. Because she wants to see her grandkids.
When the TSA agent did the inner-thigh rub, and got up to the point where her hand met resistance (yeah, a lovely euphemism for touched her labia), she apparently noticed that my mother was wearing an adult diaper. She asked her what she had in her pants loud enough for others around her to hear. My mother quietly replied, a Depends. A what? asked the TSA agent. Aa diaper! my mother said, feeling humiliated.
The agent made her lift her shirt to SHOW her the top of her diaper. All I can say is, thank God it was the full brief-type, rather than a pad. Would the agent have asked her to pull her pants down to show it to her??
Then she ran her gloved fingers all along the inside of her diaper, while my mother stood there holding her shirt up, for all the other passengers to see her 73-year-old bare midriff. At this point she regretted not asking for a private room, but it was too late it was almost over. (Plus I'd told her NOT to ask for a private room, because I didn't want my mother being molested where she couldn't be seen.)
So much for being allowed to maintain your dignity.
Anyone who thinks this is okay is sick. This is NOT what my soldier son is fighting for. Im ashamed to be an American today, if this is what our government thinks is acceptable treatment of our senior citizens. My mother has been a patriot and a good citizen for her entire life. She's never had so much as a speeding ticket. She's voted in every election she was qualified to vote in. She married a veteran of the Korean war (my dad), gave birth to a son who served in the Air Force (my brother), and has a grandson currently in the Army (my son). She goes to church, gives to the needy, and supports herself without government handouts. And THIS is what our government subjects her to - just so she can go spend Thanksgiving with her family?
I'm so angry I can hardly see straight.
Flyertalk TOS prevent me from even hinting what I really think about the TSA clerks who currently post on this site.
Nov 25, 2010 | 4:42 pm
#30
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
As other TSOs, such as yourself, have pointed out: there is no such thing as a "need" to board a commercial aircraft.