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Originally Posted by Scubatooth
(Post 15114570)
seems like another ron has made a appeareance. When presented with valid data points they are simply ignored or avoided. Good Job STSODavis.
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Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15114502)
If they were plastic there would be no need to remove them, correct?
Are you serious with these questions??? Was your answer? As I stated, I do not believe that any TSA employee is removing uniform badges to enter their work area. |
Originally Posted by JObeth66
(Post 15114602)
How many times have you been through the NoS?
Would you go through it every single time you entered the sterile area? Would you require your employees to go through it, or have an 'enhanced pat down' in public every time? I can tell you, I've never seen a TSO take their shoes off to be x-rayed when entering the checkpoints at any airport I've flown out of. I've seen many just walk right through with absolutely no searches at all. See, that's the thing about 'standards'. Words have meanings. The TSA is one organization, and rules have to be standard across the organization - not 'we get to make up our own rules for our own location the way we want'. That's not 'standard'. And we, the flying public, have been told repeatedly that these rules and standards are for our own good, and for the safety of our country. so if they're not applied as standards and they're not adhered to equally, then obviously, the TSA and the TSOs representing the TSA are anti-American and want to destroy our country. Right? I mean, that's what those of us who object to these 'but it's for our SAFETY!!!!' whines get told when we voice our objections. So what have you, as an STSO, done to make your employer and your union aware that there is no standardization in the application of rules, and that it needs to be reviewed and corrected? You're in a great position to do so. As I can obviously see talking to you is like talking to my 11 year old while she has her IPod on and ear buds in her ear, I am not going to go any further with trying to explain to you the difference between local and national policies. |
Originally Posted by JObeth66
(Post 15114550)
I mentioned elsewhere that I have had as clients large casinos. Casino employees may not bring personal items into the casino area unless those items are in clear containers provided by the casino, and all items are readily visible, the containers are subject to security search at any time. I think TSOs should be willing to do the same - I bet it cuts down on theft of passenger items if you search their belongings every time they enter & leave, and if you make them carry personal items in full view of everyone.
I would say the average modern casino is more secure, and hosts far less staff abuse, than any US airport. I do wonder why TSOs aren't searched and policed with the same intensity shown casino workers, given TSOs' pitiful record of fraud, theft, etc. Transparent screener-screening in view of the public would do a lot for TSO credibility. Instead, we get the surveillance cams' uncanny penchant for failure whenever something bad happens to a passenger. |
Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15114613)
I'm not ignoring or avoiding anything.....I can't speak for what happens at a place where I don't work. Every airport may have a different policy on how their employees are screened.
what about http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15113598-post55.html in reguards to the pat down? you invoked those killed in 9/11 when a single data point doesnt skew a million data point graph. just because you lost someone doesnt give you the right to take it out on others and trample there rights. |
Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15114599)
So I think you need to utilize that handy little scroll thingy on the right side of your screen so that you can re-read my posts. I never said that I'm not willing to subject myself to screening. I actually said the AT MY AIRPORT we are all screened. And I'm sorry that you do not have an understanding for what can be a LOCAL policy and what can be a NATIONAL policy. Once again LOCAL policy are policies that are instituted locally by the FSD....NATIONAL policies are policies which are instituted by Headquarters, which are followed nationwide (hence the word National) so once again.....I'm glad I can be the person you vent to and go on your tangents but you are talking to the wrong one. If you are so passionate about your cause direct everything you are saying to me to the person who has a greater influence than I. You are making it a personal attack that things are the way they are at an airport that I may or may not work at.
There should be no 'local policies'. Either the standards are the standard, or they're useless. If it's ok for the TSO to decide which policies they should adopt at any airport to apply to their own personnel, what guarantee does the flying public have that they are safe? As a TSO, don't you want to make sure the flying public is safe? Don't you want to bring up to your employer that the failure of other TSOs at other airports to guarantee the security of their passengers by allowing TSO employees to bypass necessary screening is endangering our country? I know when I see something being done incorrectly and inconsistently at my employer, I voice it. If I see something that can affect our customers negatively, I make sure that it goes up the chain and gets corrected. If it's absolutely necessary for the safety of the country that I be sexually assaulted in order to fly, why is the safety of the country less important when it's TSOs being sexually assaulted? If you want me to believe that every TSO getting an 'enhanced pat down' at their home airport is getting the exact same treatment as ANY person who opts out of the NoS, especially someone who may raise a concern with the TSO agents performing said 'enhanced pat down', then you must want me to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too. I'm incredibly passionate, and I'm a huge believer in the Constitution of the United States and what this country USED to stand for. When my family from Europe tells me that they feel less harrassed traveling in former Soviet Bloc countries than they do traveling to what's supposed to be the most free country in the world, you BET I'm going to react. YOU have an opportunity from the inside to help institute change. Are you willing to stand up and say 'this is wrong'? Would you allow your 11 year old daughter to be given an 'enhanced pat down' by a male TSO in a private room? Do you at least understand and accept that those of us who value our Constitutional rights have valid complaints? Or at least that those of us who are survivors of sexual abuse have a right to be angry and upset about this? (Would you allow your 11 year old daughter to go through the NoS AND then an enhanced pat down by a male TSO at an airport NOT your home airport - without telling said TSO that you are an STSO?) |
Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15114613)
I'm not ignoring or avoiding anything.....I can't speak for what happens at a place where I don't work. Every airport may have a different policy on how their employees are screened.
That is just the point! TSA is not a local or regional agency, it is a national agency and TSA rules should apply coast to coast, for both employees and travelers. That they do not is indicative of the problems the public faces when encountering employees of the TSA. |
Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15114418)
I think when it comes to the screening of TSA employees that policy is local. Some airports can say none of TSA employees have to be screened before work....some can say all have to be screened...and some can even say TSO's and LTSO have to be screened but STSO and above don't....so that is left up to the FSD of that airport on which policy they adopt.
4.3.13. TSA PERSONNEL A. TSOs who enter the sterile area through the screening checkpoint must undergo screening at the beginning of their shift. TSOs who exit the screening checkpoint to perform work within the scope of their screening duties (such as assisting with passengers or collecting divest bins) need not be rescreened upon reentering the screening checkpoint. Where the FSD has waived TSO rescreening, TSOs who leave the screening checkpoint area and are completely out of sight for rest breaks, lunch, etc. need not be rescreened upon returning to the screening checkpoint after presenting their TSA employee ID or local airport ID for review by a TSO or designated TSA representative. However, where the FSD has elected to waive TSO rescreening, the FSD must implement random screening of TSOs returning from breaks. B. FSDs may exempt themselves, DFSDs, AFSDs/DAFSDs for Screening, training coordinators, training specialists, scheduling operations officers, TSMs, Stakeholder Managers/Liaisons, STSOs, and LTSOs from screening, while on duty, after presenting their TSA employee ID or local airport ID for review by a TSO or TSA representative designated by the FSD. On duty includes meals and rest breaks. |
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/25690509/index.html
A tv station in Detroit made yesterday airport security day and had four stories. The one linked above was about airport employees and entering secure areas. It came down to it was way too easy for somebody to sell an ID and give somebody access. The other three stories were pretty funny. the first one was what passengers should be watching out for, that was groups of people, people taking pictures or video inside the airport, etc, and they should report any of that. The second was on safety outside the airport, where they filmed an empty truck parked on the curb for over a half hour before it was spotted, though the rest of it was pretty locked down. This was the third, the last one was where they left an unattended bag to see how long it would go without being noticed, twice it was not noticed for 20 minutes, the third time somebody spotted it after 15 minutes. |
Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 15114752)
From the TSA Screening Management SOP:
So, yeah. All the terrorists have to do is co-opt a TSO in one of the airports where they don't have to be screened & re-screened. If I've been screened, I should be able to leave the sterile area and go back in without having to be re-screened, shouldn't I? All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others, apparently. |
Originally Posted by boiflyer
(Post 15112611)
You're right, you don't grope anyone, you Grape™ them. Yes, that is Rape under duress and coercion, plain and simple. Whether you want to call it Government rape, Genital rape, or Groping rape you are still touching penises, testicles, vulvas, anuses and breasts under threat of not flying. Oh that's right, it's more correct to call them "sensitive areas" :rolleyes:.
I would quit my job if I had to sexually assault anyone. Just because the TSA doesn't think it is sexual assault doesn't mean the victim does not perceive it that way. As far as I know, a person who accepts unwanted sexual contact for monetary purposes is a whore. Is that what you are calling FlyerTalkers? |
Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 15114752)
From the TSA Screening Management SOP:TSOs who enter the sterile area through the screening checkpoint must undergo screening at the beginning of their shift
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Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15114665)
As I can obviously see talking to you is like talking to my 11 year old while she has her IPod on and ear buds in her ear, I am not going to go any further with trying to explain to you the difference between local and national policies.
other examples are shoe in bin or on the belt. laptops in a neoprene sleeve that nothing else is in or it has to be flat on the belt out of the slip case (where in one case it got the screen lid broken because the operator ramped the speed up to catapult and shot it into the side of a hard suitcase cracking the lid as well as sending bins flying off the rollers damaging other travelers property. The operator went "opps, im not responsible or paying for that". That unprofessional comment got the whole checkpoints attention when i screamed bloody murder for a supervisor and the police. I have also had professional camera equipment willfully damaged by TSA and then try to deny it when i filed for compensation for the repairs, that only got resolved when I sent a certified letter threatening legal proceedings against the FSD of the airport. Similarly i have had bags and there contents damaged by the action of TSA that again took the threat of legal action to get the damage fixed. I have seen TSA employees routinely walk straight through a WTMD setting it off with a large starbucks in there hand and a backpack over there shoulder and nothing done, but yet i have to strip everything off because im not wearing a cop outfit with a tin badge and havent had a "background check". Im supposed to trust anyone from TSA despite the long list of violations and incidents by TSA employees violating the public trust and the law. As well as when i question them im told XYZ or ABC is "SSI" when reality is I have had a background check and one of my government clearances issued by DHS is higher then a LTSO, but when presented with that fact they can back up there claims and either bow up because i questioned there authority/contempt of clerk. TSA has no standards and hides beyond "inconstantly inconstant" to cover its butt when in reality its just means TSA doesnt have a clue and its all a show. |
Originally Posted by RichardKenner
(Post 15114899)
Which seems to say that TSOs who enter the sterile area via some other method need not be screened.
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Originally Posted by STSODavis
(Post 15113999)
Are you volunteering to be my sponsor and take on all my financial obligations for the rest of my life?
Is there really nothing else you could do besides work for the TSA? |
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