Yes I do admit that I do things at work that I don't always agree with or like to do.....same as every other person on this planet has at some point in their working life.

And I don't "grope" anyone. If a pat down is performed it is done professionally and there is no groping involved. And "naked images" LMAO.....I wouldn't call what we see "naked". It just an image or outline of a body. The worst we can see are love handles that are camouflaged under the clothing.

Hello STSODavis and welcome to Flyertalk. Thank you for posting here, and I hope you will stick around and keep contributing.

While I respect that many TSOs are motivated by a genuine desire to improve security, you are correct that TSA is widely disliked owing to its arbitrary, confrontational, often nonsensical front-line operating style... and its inability to professionalize or even control many of your colleagues.

With TSA's misleading (at best) rhetoric around full-body scanners, and punitive opt-out patdowns designed to upset people rather than enhance security, the agency has now invited open warfare with airline employees and more conscious, aware passengers. TSA has only itself to blame for the fact that "TSA can't win."

If, as you say, TSA has secretly prevented chaos but cannot reveal the details for fear of causing "hysteria" -- I would be very surprised. It seems to me that what TSA most needs right now is some concrete evidence that all this shampoo-confiscating and breast-grabbing is paying off, in however small a way.

Finally, to your remark that you have to do things you don't like on the front lines "because it's my job" -- I would remind you that employees of tobacco companies, drug mules, etc. do not get an ethical pass because they're downstream from the evil people at the top. You are part of an organization deploying very questionable tactics against American citizens with not much to show for it. I would ask you to look into your own heart and see if there isn't something else you can do to put groceries on the table with a clearer conscience. TSA is not going to go down in history in a good way; do you really want to be aboard this bus?

And an hysterical public is the last thing the TSA wants, isn't it now.

I think the person who gets to define the word groping is the gropee not the groper.

To many reports from people having their genitals felt by TSA screeners have been made public to discount those reports.

I don't think you can make claim that all TSA employees act professionally. Heck, TSA can't even get its employees to all agree if shoes go in a bin or not. TSA can't even get its employees on the same page of what ID's are considered acceptable. Not to mention the multiple known cases of thieves, drug dealers, child porn suspects and the fact that TSA has hired known felons. No claim of professionalism of TSA employees can stand up to scrutiny.

As far as the WBI images, TSA could shut down that issue in just minutes by publishing actual images. If done with no target items in the image then no security issue would be in play. TSA has not done so and I think the reason is clear that the images would be disturbing to the public.

I would assume you have free will and if what TSA is requiring you to do is unacceptable you could simply move on.

Otherwise it seems $40~50 dollars buys your loyalty to TSA.

You're right, you don't grope anyone, you Grape™ them. Yes, that is Rape under duress and coercion, plain and simple. Whether you want to call it Government rape, Genital rape, or Groping rape you are still touching penises, testicles, vulvas, anuses and breasts under threat of not flying. Oh that's right, it's more correct to call them "sensitive areas" :rolleyes:.

I would quit my job if I had to sexually assault anyone. Just because the TSA doesn't think it is sexual assault doesn't mean the victim does not perceive it that way. Welcome to Flyertalk. Most of us here despise the TSA, but I think most of us appreciate the TSA employees that participate.

This is perfectly true and even other security authorities, elsewhere in the world, have lately let slip their disregard / derision for TSA. The professionalism gap between TSA and analogous agencies in other countries is astonishing. It takes only a casual observer to confirm this. TSA defends its out-of-control front-liners as "strategic inconsistency" but this seems like ridiculous cover for a rogue agency with too high a percentage of incompetents, bullies or maniacs in customer-contact roles and no will to do anything about it.

At no other security checkpoints in the world do innocent customers get screamed at, have their genitals groped, and risk having their belongings stolen. Yes, Heathrow forces you through dangerous full-body scanners, but at least they're polite and professional about it.

Well I thank you for your pleasant response and not attacking me. You implying that I should leave my place of employment because "TSA is not going to go down in history as a good thing" is not an option for me. I love my job and I love serving my country. Are all McDonald's employees going to quit because they are not going down in history as a good thing....After all the food they sell is a contributing factor to the obesity epidemic in America. Are all employees at shoe stores going to quit because its a proven fact that wearing high heels can cause damage to your feet? Is everyone at Dell, HP, Apple, and any other computer manufacturer going to quit because excessive use of their equipment can cause carpel tunnel and vision problems. I don't think so.

Like I said there have been things that go on behind the scene that will let you know that America is not safe from terrorism and that aviation security continues to remain a target.

As far as the things dealing my my job that I don't like to do....that's the reason I choose to stay and continue to move up the ladder and use my influence and voice my opinion on things that I consider need to be evaluated further.

I can understand that people don't like the TSA for numerous reasons. Mainly because people consider the rules and policies to be an inconvenience. I can assure just like people don't want us going through your bag or touching you....we don't want to go through your bag or touch you. We deal with the people who are (trying to be nice here) "unkempt" , smelly, and in other words you worst nightmare to sit next to on a plane. It takes a lot to be in a position to deal with the public on such a huge ratio. Gotta have thick skin for this job.

No, I consider them to be unconstitutional, a likely minority opinion, but mine nonetheless.

STSODavis, Welcome to FT!


Let me just ask you one quick question. There are many countries that are not doing the genital rape of passengers at the checkpoint or the gate, and "miraculously", they have not had planes blown out of the sky. With that in mind, why is TSA the only agency to be doing this BS?

I see I am getting such a warm welcoming here. I have been a silent reader for quite some time now.

Although I'm sure you wont agree with me. I don't consider what I do as sexual assault. When someone is getting a pat down performed on them it should be explained thoroughly as to what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. Now if someone just takes you to the side and starts rubbing all over you without saying anything to you then yes I would agree with you on that point. If you get anything other than professional and courteous treatment then you should complain.

I always tell my employees if they have a passenger that appears to be extremely rude or upset for whatever reason to call someone else over to oversee what is going on in that situation. Because we do have those people out there that very joy in life to make or jobs as difficult as possible.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Once again I will state that there have been many instances of security incidents that happen with are not public knowledge because that information is classified. Also if you look at some of the other countries who do not use the same security procedures as the US they have had many more terrorist incidents happen.

Welcome to FT.

The US has been hit by more terrorist attacks in the 9 years since the TSA was created than the US was hit in the previous 9 year period.

Most countries that have less of the "security" dog and pony show than the US have had far fewer (if any) terrorist incidents happen that the US.

The TSA is an expensive workfare workfarce program that has failed to demonstrate any statistically significant positive improvement on saving lives and property from terrorist attacks.

Sexual assault is as defined and perceived by the victim, not the perpetrator.

This wraps it up really well:

Well, thank you for taking the time to post here, knowing that the vast majority of "regulars" are most critical of TSA and cynical about its procedures and motives. But I think almost everyone here is for civil discussion, no matter how angry we are about this state of affairs.

Fair analogies, especially about McDonald's (although McD's has lately canned the SuperSize meals and gone the apples-and-salads route in response to customers). But your examples are things citizens can opt to buy; they represent freedom of choice. Quasi-rational, arbitrary airport security is different -- unavoidable. TSA is at best a challenge to civil liberties, at worst extra-Constitutional. There will be some pretty interesting test cases against TSA in our court system soon enough, and if TSA prevails, God help us; then it really isn't the country I thought it was.

This is where TSA critics start to go kablooey, because -- absolutely no disrespect intended here, STSODavis -- such assertions are standard from repressive regimes trying to maintain control. "We are the only ones standing between you and events so horrible we can't even name them, so you had better give us all the rope we want." Now, certainly some government agency, somewhere, is fighting in the shadows and preventing some bad things. But it's extremely hard to give TSA this kind of credit given visible variance in TSA competence and professionalism. The security officer who interviews you at AMS or TLV didn't get her job off a pizza box, and I have never been screamed at overseas the way we are all routinely screamed at by TSOs.

I know the flying public is no bed of roses either -- hey, I sit next to the types you mention often enough. :) And Flyertalk regulars are sort of "professional passengers" who know the systems around commercial aviation, and are just as critical of amateur customers as they are of rude flight attendants and crazy TSOs.

That said, the blue shirt clearly attracts a personality type that digs the power trip -- a lot of TSOs do, it seems to me, like belittling passengers, toying with them, inventing weird rules for them, in extreme cases touching them unnecessarily or stealing from them. (As you well know, hundreds of TSOs have been associated with checkpoint theft.) Some may just be tinhorn dictators who don't get to hold the TV remote at home; some may think this lineup of weary guys with boarding passes, blazers and laptops represent The Man. But some, it seems to me, are genuinely abusive personalities who have found a perfect gig. If TSA were more interested in corrective supervision or a genuine professionalism drive, these unguided missiles wouldn't operate with such confidence. I've no doubt that you dislike doing the full-body patdowns. I've also no doubt that a lot of your colleagues approach them with relish, for whatever reason. And when I see TSOs urging cute teenage girls and young women into the WBIs but not caring whether I choose it or not, I'm unimpressed. Just like with public school teachers, a minority of bad apples tilts one's impression of the whole lot. Another reason for a civil and thoughtful TSO like you to review your career options. ;)

Per my note above...we do have TSOs out there who come to work looking to make passengers' lives unnecessarily painful and difficult, and I am quite sure a few clock in looking forward to seeing naked people. TSA could do something about that, but it's not. Why not?

With respect and regards.

Welcome to FlyerTalk!

In the past, TSA has been quick to publicize its small successes. Why would major security incidents be classified? While I could understand classifying details that might be sensitive, why wouldn't they announce a major triumph?

But I as the person being screened do consider what your doing an assault if your touching or coming into contact with my gentials.

You can justify whatever and however any way you like but that does not change how I view what your doing.

The Enhanced Pat Down is an assault.