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-   -   TSA has never caught a single terrorist? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1146280-tsa-has-never-caught-single-terrorist.html)

BearX220 Nov 10, 2010 6:02 pm


Originally Posted by STSO_Davis (Post 15116168)
If OSHA deemed it as unsafe....they would not allow those machines to be operated.

With great respect, there was a time when the government said it was safe to stand around in the desert while A-bomb tests went off. Tell that to the cast of "The Conqueror." Cautionary tale behind the link.

If I were you I wouldn't be standing around these machines for a whole shift. How come my dental hygenist runs for cover every time she hits the x-ray button?

n4zhg Nov 10, 2010 6:09 pm


Originally Posted by beauvoir (Post 15110857)
Is it really true that not one person the TSA has ever prevented from boarding a plane has ever been convicted (or even prosecuted) for being a threat to the flight they were prevented from boarding?

That depends on your definition of "terrorist". Which in no way is congruent to how a TSO will define a "terrorist".

Carrying $4700 in small bills? Terrorist.

Bring a home-made NiMH pack for a flight to Hawaii? Terrorist.

Student with Arabic/English flash cards? Terrorist.

Woman with lots of checks? Terrorist.

Opt out? Terrorist.

Muslim wearing C-4 underwear and a dead man switch in his rectum? OK.

MikeMpls Nov 10, 2010 6:41 pm


Originally Posted by txrus (Post 15116006)
Not only that, as I recall, when the FBI was tracking the Times Square Bomber & they determined he was heading for the airport, the decision was made to NOT inform the TSA & let him get thru the checkpoint. FBI, as we all know, arrested him later.

So that tells me even LE feels the same way about the TSA as we do-nothing but window dressing!

Smart move on their part. If TSA had gotten their hands on him, what are the odds that any evidence (or perhaps even the arrest itself) would have been tainted & thrown out?

Mr. Elliott Nov 10, 2010 6:45 pm


Originally Posted by STSO_Davis (Post 15116168)
As I have stated in another post....anytime there is a change that could put employees at risk OSHA comes out to verify that it is indeed a safe working requirement. If OSHA deemed it as unsafe....they would not allow those machines to be operated.

Yes, keep that in your mind when in about 10 years from now when they discover that there is an abnormal high rate of cancers in TSO’s that worked at checkpoints that used backscatter scanners.

Then you and the all the other affected TSO’s can join in a class action lawsuit against your employer, the Federal Government along with all the other class actions filed in the past, like for those exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam and the workers at the World trade Center site in the days after 9-11, they all thought they were safe because the Federal Government said it was safe.

If you believe the Federal Government that these backscatter machines are safe, how come the TSA will not let their workers who are near these machines wear dosimeters so they can measure the amount of radiation they are receiving

And OSHA, like the FAA often work after the fact, they will investigate and issue regulations only after there is a major accident with loss of life. Almost every aviation safety improvement was the direct result of a major accident, even today’s Air traffic Control system came about after a collision of 2 airliners over the Grand Canyon in the 1950’s.

So don’t count on OSHA to protect you, I don’t think the TSA will even release the specific information about the backscatter machines to OSHA, claiming SSI.

So if you have a backscatter scanner at your location, enjoy the radiation you are getting, and just keep on thinking, my employer says I am safe, so I have nothing to worry about.

LOL

Mr. Elliott

eyecue Nov 10, 2010 7:06 pm


Originally Posted by STSODavis (Post 15112142)
Originally Posted by cordelli
While that is probably true, they have stopped (as did whatever system was in place before) people with guns, knives, etc from getting on the plane. Terrorists? Probably not, but nobody knows their intent with whatever they were carrying.


TSA can't seem to win with some people. All I can say on this matter is that although there are some things that I have to do for my job that I don't agree with I do it because it's my job. I'm sure there are many people out there that have been asked to do something on the job that they don't necessarily agree with. However in TSA's defense, for those who say TSA has never caught a terrorist, you may win that debate. But there has been many incidents that go on which is not public knowledge for fear or creating mass hysteria. There has been incidents of surveillance which has been caught, incidents of test runs, which have been caught, IED components, which have been caught....all by TSA in conjunction other government entities. This will not be publicized because it will cause hysteria amongst the general public.

Nice post! I am glad that you said it before I did in this instance. I have said this before in other posts and all you get in return is pure grief.

JoeBas Nov 10, 2010 7:10 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15116725)
Nice post! I am glad that you said it before I did in this instance. I have said this before in other posts and all you get in return is pure grief.

It must be hard to be so misunderstood...

eyecue Nov 10, 2010 7:11 pm


Originally Posted by txrus (Post 15116006)
Not only that, as I recall, when the FBI was tracking the Times Square Bomber & they determined he was heading for the airport, the decision was made to NOT inform the TSA & let him get thru the checkpoint. FBI, as we all know, arrested him later.

So that tells me even LE feels the same way about the TSA as we do-nothing but window dressing!

Mis-statement of fact. That does not tell you anything you are speculating.

JSmith1969 Nov 10, 2010 7:11 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15116725)
Nice post! I am glad that you said it before I did in this instance. I have said this before in other posts and all you get in return is pure grief.

That's because it's pure and utter bollocks.

billgrates3 Nov 10, 2010 7:21 pm


Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott (Post 15116618)
Yes, keep that in your mind when in about 10 years from now when they discover that there is an abnormal high rate of cancers in TSO’s that worked at checkpoints that used backscatter scanners.

Then you and the all the other affected TSO’s can join in a class action lawsuit against your employer, the Federal Government ...

The TSO's heirs will appreciate the money, I'm sure. Unfortunately the TSOs suffering from early onset cancers (or already dead) will not be so appreciative.

firespirit Nov 10, 2010 9:20 pm


Originally Posted by STSODavis (Post 15112792)
Although I'm sure you wont agree with me. I don't consider what I do as sexual assault. When someone is getting a pat down performed on them it should be explained thoroughly as to what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. Now if someone just takes you to the side and starts rubbing all over you without saying anything to you then yes I would agree with you on that point. If you get anything other than professional and courteous treatment then you should complain.

I haven't read further yet to see if others find this disturbing, but just because someone tells me what they are going to do to me next doesn't make it acceptable.

I get extremely annoyed when people ambush me and rub my pregnant belly. Telling me first and then just doing it doesn't make it any better. Always ask for permission and get consent first or you have no right to get upset when I smack your hand.

ND Sol Nov 10, 2010 9:33 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15116725)
Nice post! I am glad that you said it before I did in this instance. I have said this before in other posts and all you get in return is pure grief.

If you think it was a "nice post", then perhaps you might be willing to address the following:


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 15113309)
How many of these incidents have led to arrests and convictions? Unless we have a Star Chamber in the US, the answer would be zero.

These incidents are worthless unless they can be proved. And to date, none have in the United States. Imagine what the American public would do to the TSA if it found out that it didn't disclose verifiable incidents and another terrorist attack resulted?


RichardKenner Nov 11, 2010 4:48 am


Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott (Post 15116618)
So don’t count on OSHA to protect you, I don’t think the TSA will even release the specific information about the backscatter machines to OSHA, claiming SSI.

Aren't these machines also used by other customers than TSA? Hasn't the manufacturer already filed the information?

InkUnderNails Nov 11, 2010 6:06 am

I think it is safe to say the following, logical fallacies included and understood: Because of the things that the TSA and DHS does to catch terrorists there are certain techniques that someone may have considered that they decided to not do because they may have gotten caught or not succeeded, and by deciding to not do something is a terrorist act "saved" or "prevented" and this may have occurred many hundreds of times, maybe thousands, no one knows, but it only takes one prevention of someone doing something they may have otherwise done to make us all more safe.

It is the reason that hundreds, maybe thousands, of the bad guys are not running around the airport downing planes with 9 oz toothpaste, thawed key lime pie and an Aguafina.

It is either that or they have actionable intelligence that bad guys can be identified by the fact that they do not how to take their shoes off and put them back on, and because they can not do this they do not try. Hundreds of times, has to be.

That is all. Easy.

beauvoir Nov 11, 2010 6:36 am


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 15118793)
Aren't these machines also used by other customers than TSA? Hasn't the manufacturer already filed the information?

Where is it then? The specific piece of information that the UCSF professors wanted to know was the number of photons per unit area and time emitted by the backscatter machines onto the surface of the body.

Mr. Elliott Nov 11, 2010 7:08 am


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 15118793)
Aren't these machines also used by other customers than TSA? Hasn't the manufacturer already filed the information?

I was only stating what I have read on this forum about these machines, that the TSA will not release any specific information about them, other than saying they are basically safe because it is considered SSI, along with how these machines are maintained and calibrated and are the people who maintain and calibrate them properly trained.

If these same machines are used elsewhere and then that information should be available, then the experts should review this information independently and make their findings available so the public and the TSA employees knows if they are safe or not over a long term.

Mr. Elliott


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