You'd think ANYONE would feel stupid wanding bare skin. Or insisting that cloth baby booties go through the x-ray. Or taking Pirates of the Caribbean plastic swords from kids in MCO. But, apparently, they don't feel stupid doing those things. Or at any rate, they don't feel any more stupid than they usually do.

But don't worry Tanja. TSA isn't there to keep you safe. They're there to make stupid people feel safe.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt the bolded sentence above. If someone has a surgical site covered by clothing, the nude-o-scope is going to highlight any thick bandages, metal staples, etc, requiring a physical search to "resolve" the alarm and causing more inconvenience and discomfort.

This is in addition to the numerous reports from various airports that EVERYONE going through the nude-o-scope was getting a post-NOS patdown anyway. :rolleyes:

(bolding mine Interesting that we've come full circle on the visual. Remember the woman with pierced nipples who was willing to allow the TSO to visually resolve the alarm but was told SOP didn't allow that?

Yes, I understand that 'granny in the wheelchair' can't be exempt. Just want to be clear that there's a big difference between wanding granny and doing a full, open-palm frisk over every part of her body while she's in the wheelchair. And I assume it will mean that some post-surgery pax will have to remove bulky dressings for visual inspection if the alternative would be pressure that might rupture an incision or cause undue pain. And I understand that infants and toddlers who can't assume and hold the position for the scan will have to be subjected to a frisk because a diaper is just as likely to be used to conceal something as a grown man's underpants or a woman's bra. Now, more than ever, it would be great to think there will be some sort of screening so that only TSO's with at least a modicum of respect for the pax will be allowed and that complaints of invasive or rough handling will be tracked and acted on, regardless of intent, but that's probably too much to hope for. After all, if you receive an unusual number of complaints about rough handling against a particular TSO, aren't you willing to give the pax the benefit of a doubt and assume that perhaps the TSO just doesn't know his/her own strength?

When you train, do you get hands-on training and feedback of your technique, or do you just watch videos and demos? (I ask because I know a doctor whose practice involves some rather invasive manual probing. Her class initially demo'd and practiced on a dummy before doing it on volunteers and they all were subjected to the same exam themselves so they really had a sense of what it should be like, and what it should not feel like.)

Since a high school diploma is not required to become a TSA screening clerk, it is best not to confuse them with any ability to make a judgment call for common sense.

I think Sattso posted once that sometimes the bare skin wand is just habit. You wand everything all the time.

It just occurred to me...so now I'll get my feet frisked every time I have to involuntarily opt-out? Eew...I will be really sure to request glove changes. I wonder if they'll frisk between my toes...

There will always be situations that require an STSO on the checkpoint to make a call, whether it is covered by SOP or something that was not necessarily taken into account by the SOP - and (at least in my experience) common sense rules that situation.

I have the same wishes you do in the case of a specific TSO having complaints, at a minimum, they need to be counselled on proper procedure and that can actually be done tactfully at the start. I am certain that there are some of us (the woman tells me I am "heavy handed", so I have to take great care in dealing with folks that fall into the category we have been discussing, and passengers in general for that matter) that could benefit from what you mention. The thing I hope everyone (TSOs included) gets is that just because someone has an injury or a disability or something that requires extra screening of any kind - is not extra work or a problem or something to be upset about, it is one of the reasons we are here and get the training we do. They have just as much right to travel as I do, and should be afforded the same courtesy and professionalism that I would get. In the case that any passenger doesn't get professional service, they should forward complaints up the chain.

The training I have recieved has been hands on, book training, lecture (over and over and over). One good aspect of that practicing with other TSOs is it gives you the chance to physically do what is expected of you repeatedly away from the checkpoint, it also allows automatic critique of the method by someone else that knows what is going on. Our training started my first day, and has been ongoing since then. We have some of the best training, and MOST training I have had since I left the Army (and anyone that has been in the military understands how constant that is).

I will admit that I have a more vested interest in folks with disabilities because of family members that had them, but that is personal. I also am "too nice" according to most of the people that are important in my life, there opinion is that I am something of an anomoly in that respect (I take the "more flies with honey" adage a bit too far I guess).

Actually, I was particularly wondering about the hands-on frisk training. It seems to me that if you frisk each other, that could be uncomfortable (it would be for me). I can't imagine any situation where I'd feel comfortable cupping the genitals or breasts of a co-worker. And presumably Rolando Negrin hadn't been frisked by his own co-workers or they would already have known how he is built.

I know someone (forced early retirement) who had always assumed she would work for TSA post-retirement. She believes in the fundamental mission, has personally had bad encounters, wanted to try to make a small difference from within. This has been a deal-breaker for her, she's just not comfortable with touching women and children's privates. She understands the threat, just feels she's not the person who can perform these functions.

I also wonder if the training includes hands-on frisking of someone in a wheelchair or hands-on handling of someone with post-surgical bandages or a colostomy bag. Or does it include the full-on frisk of an infant? If you've ever tried to help someone in a wheelchair. I certainly hope the training includes hands-on practice, not just for the pax, but also because if you don't know what you're doing (and even if you do), you can really mess up your back trying to reach all parts of a wheelchair person's body while they are still in the chair.

Videos and demos are great, but there's no substitute for hands-on training. Even if you're accustomed to intimately handling folks of the same gender because of your sexual preferences, handling them in that manner isn't the same as handling them professionally.

So how do you handle people that get so upset that they brake down?

Start crying and shaking.? Get sick from it ?

Do you know that there is a lot of cultures and religions that it is a sin for a stranger to view /touch their body.

This is not security at all.

Yes, usually we do feel kind of stupid doing it, but it’s what we get paid for.

There are people here at TS/S who think that “bum” bombs are a threat. There is no limit to what people can rationalize.

Kindly read what the OP wrote. Your comments are inappropriate to the thread.

Because they are usually attached to legs? :D

Ever hear of someone using tape to hide something on the bottom of their feet? I’ve seen it.

Be careful. The areas still need to be cleared, but we are going to do our best to not cause pain during the clearing.

I once screened a disabled person who had a medical condition that made his entire body painful to the touch. It was the longest screening I have ever done, and just watching the guys face as I did the FBPD was nearly as painful for me as it was for him.

The moral of the story is, let us know if you have a condition like that (painful areas) and we will do what we can to help.

No.

OK, step back. You are changing gears here without letting us know. Sensitive “painful” areas are different than Sensitive “private” areas. Look over the OP’s post, you will understand what I mean.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14764229-post1.html

And you go to jail. Geez people, try and be rational. I don’t know you, I don’t know if you are a terrorist or not (most likely you are not, but there is always that chance), and I have a job that requires me to make sure that no prohibited items are brought through the checkpoint by passengers. I am not assaulting you, so stop claiming I am. Call the cops and I will not be the one going out in handcuffs.

And you will pay the price for an inappropriate decision.

I am being inappropiate???
I dont think so.
I have a normal reaction if somebody touches me in my private areas.


I dont like it at all.
And yes they would handcuff me a tiny skinny grandmother cause I get offened that I get touched to fly.

And no i am not a terrorist . i can hardly even kill a spider.

But I raised that my body is mine and if somebody does something against your will and you fell bad about it. defend your self.

I rather go to a private room and take off all my clothes.
If they are women. But being touched by a stranger NO that is not happening.
So what happens if I still get touc hed and start crying/
You guys just laughs away telling me that I will feel safer than you have touched my breats and genitals.
Who are you kidding/ Not me.

No such animal.

That would be "none," if you're traveling by air travel, then, since your agency's workforce is neither courteous nor professional.

Returning to the initial question, I am concerned by some of the ongoing replies here by TSOs.

Putting pressure on stitches, removing sterile bandages, and touching or pressing on sensitive areas is a concern if they are done by those without medical training. Yet it seems from some of the responses that those actions are being done by TSOs (and I myself have experienced them)

On a personal level, if I had any type of serious temporary or permanent medical condition (or had a relative with one) I would be very cautious about dealing with TSA and would take precautions to avoid further medical injury or damage.

There are some legal issues here that, I suspect, will eventually have to be settled in court because there are contraditions.

If somebody says "you do not have permission to touch me there" and they are touched there and it causes pain (i.e., "injury"), that satisfies all the elements of a crime (called either "assault" or "battery" depending on the jurisdiction). There are similar issues (discussed in another thread) about sexual touching.

On the other hand, the courts have held (and, rightly so, in my opinion) that once a search is started, the person cannot withdraw from the search.

Those two very accepted legal principles are in conflict in situations where a claim is made (by TSA) that a continuation of the seach requires the granting of one of the permissions above.

Then there's the American's with Disabilities Act. TSOs have claimed here that "if we cannot clear a person, they will not be allowed into the sterile area". Making that statement in a general way is a prima facia violation of the ADA. If the TSA doesn't have the available techology to clear a disabled passenger while dealing with their disabilities, that's the TSA's problem: it doesn't somehow become the passenger's problem. The law does not allow a disabled person to be denied access to the sterile area simply because the TSA doesn't have an effective way of screening them.

Now it's certainly true that the above is no more than legal theory since it's never (to my knowlege) been tested in court. However, I strongly suspect that the DHS legal office wouldn't want to have such a test case because of the real risk they'd lose.

Very thoughtful post.

With regard to screening passengers with disabilities, I think TSA would argue right now that they are trained to clear a passenger with disabilities. It may be very uncomfortable for the passenger, but in theory there's no reason they can't be subjected to an open-hand full-body frisk like anyone else. I also question the requirement to open-hand frisk infants and small children. If a dressing on a wound can conceal something, so can a diaper.

IF there are any 'incidents' that actually get reported widely enough for someone at TSA to feel it necessary to make a statement, we'll be reassured that they have been trained, they value our safety, they are sorry about one bad experience and that they are taking the complaint seriously.

And that will be the end of it.

Because of the way you posted your reply I’m not entirely sure which comment of mine you are replying to. The comment might not have been directed to you, and I try my best to direct my replies to the individual that made the comment.

That being said, I don’t like having people touch my private areas either. But I have never threatened harm to someone who I know is required to do it. Doctors, Police, Screeners, Nurses, Wife. Grab something without my “OK” and my reaction is going to be pretty interesting to behold.

The point I am making is that we TSO’s are going to tell you what we are doing and why before we do it. If you don’t want us to do it then say so and we won’t. Of course there are consequences for that decision, and that may be that you will not be allowed into the sterile area of the airport.

Everyone must give up something to travel. Money for the most part, but there are other things as well. To drive you must have the states permission (a drivers license). To ride a bike you must obey the laws. To walk you must expend energy and still obey the laws for pedestrians. Take a boat, ride a bus, fly in a private aircraft, they all have specific requirements that you must meet before being allowed to engage is that activity. As does traveling on a commercial aircraft.

We all have to give up something tanja, no matter what mode of transport we choose. The most common thing we give up is freedom. It’s one of the costs of travel, and it’s been that way since before you were born. Feel free to not like it. Feel free to be offended. But if you are going to assign blame for those emotions then please make sure that you assign that blame to the correct people or agencies. HINT: It aint the TSO’s that are at the checkpoint, and is not even the TSA.

Easy to write. But I don’t know you, and grannies have been known to carry bombs, pistols, rifles, and even the occasional knife. I can’t take you at your word, sorry but that would be an ignorant thing to do.

OK. Defend yourself. Good idea. But what the TSO’s do at the checkpoint is not assault, we don’t do it without your permission, and we don’t do it without you knowing about it. Defend yourself against a TSO doing their job and the ride you will be taking will not be on an airplane.

We have private screening areas available, at every single checkpoint the TSA operates.

It’s called “Implied Consent”. In other words, the signs that you pass as you walk through the airport tell you that you must be screened before you can fly. If you fail to read them, or fail to hear the announcements over the P.A. system, all you need to do is “ask” and someone will explain it to you. Failing all that, then you shouldn’t be flying anyway. Otherwise, you have implied that you consent to the screening.

Once you have gotten to the airport you can always refuse screening. We won’t mind, honest. Walk away. But if you want to enter the sterile areas of the airport then you absolutely must undergo screening. We are not going to twist your arm and make you go through screening, we will not force you. It’s your choice, completely. 100%.
I cant speak for other TSO’s, but I don’t laugh at passengers unless they are telling jokes (occasionally this does happen). Nor can I influence how you are going to feel, if you want to feel safer then that is a choice you are going to make and there is nothing I can do about it. What I do know is that every passenger before you and every passenger after you is going to be screened just as well as you have been. You will know this as well, just as they know that everyone on the aircraft they are flying on has been screened. If that does give you the information you need to feel safer then there is nothing anyone can do for you. You will just have to fly scared or not fly at all.

You make a couple of excellent points.

TSO’s should not be removing bandages (I would never do it). If we touch them attempting to clear them and cannot, then we are required to refer the situation to the checkpoint supervisor. That person will make the decision on weather or not you can enter the sterile area.

When we are touching these things we are not making a medical evaluation and honestly require no medical training to do it. Our training focus’s on finding prohibited items, and let’s be honest bandages and the like CAN be used to hide things. We will depend on the passenger to assist in these areas to help us make sure that we cause no more discomfort than absolutely necessary.

We deal with disabled folks every day. Much of our training is on that one subject alone. We know what we are doing as far as our duties are concerned. If there is something special that we should know about their condition that will affect the passenger and screening then it is the responsibility of the passenger to let us know. We don’t read minds, we are not doctors. You would know far better than we would about how to get you and your specific issues through the screening process without discomfort.

TSA is just one short step away from commiting rape.

How does that support anyones security.