Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14786952)

Probably has something to do with the thread title. 'Question for TSOs' unfortunately invites just that: questions addressed to TSOs.

Having said that, I'm curious. Do you feel you know what to expect if you frisked over a sensitive (physical pain) area? Would you be comfortable with peeling back a dressing to avoid pressure?

I ask because a few years ago I had a quite painful procedure that required me to have an open drain from a wound for a week. Very very painful. I couldn't bathe around it, certainly wouldn't have even touched it myself, just the pressure of clothing elevated the pain. At the same time, I wasn't supposed to mess with the dressing because the drain could be shifted or dislodged and cause serious problems.

I don't know what I would do today if I were in that situation and had to fly. Based on the answers here, I probably couldn't.

Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 14787036)

It is unfortunate because I agree with you that there needs to be a discussion centred around medical issues/disabilities and how TSOs deal with them. That message may get lost around some of the more emotional posts not dealing specifically with injuries etc.

However as chollie noted, the thread title does invite other questions. Hopefully (as someone suggested) this thread is not merged with another one dealing with the emotions of dealing with a physical search, as I really do see the value in one dealing with specific medical concerns.

And I am not downplaying the other issues which have arisen on this thread, but I do think that the value of the original question may be overshadowed by some of the other posts not dealing with the original subject matter.

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14787332)

So, I guess the next question is can one of the moderators change the title of the thread?

Originally Posted by tanja (Post 14781764)

Ok. you dont get my point.
If I would say I would show you my naked body BUT please dont ouch me.
You are telling me that "you" rather touch me than see it.
Weird.
I have friend in Europe, in security, and they have told me that they would thank a person to strip so they dont have to touch.
And who ever came up with the idea that touching is more appropiate then seening is really a sick person.

This is not against you. So dont take it personally.

Cant change travel plans since I always go to Scandinavia. No plans to go on a boat.

Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott (Post 14782204)

Another question for the TSO’s.

After I place my personal belongings on the belt for x-ray and I am selected for NOS screening, if my personal belongings are now out of my sight, do I have any rights to have my possessions removed after x-ray screening so it is within my sight at all times while going through the NOS.

Mr. Elliott

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14783146)

TSORon, with all due respect, I don't think you would believe a co-worker of yours had done something wrong (unnecessarily aggressive frisk, for example) even if that co-worker told you he/she did it. I think you would still firmly believe that the pax had done something to deserve it.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14783146)

At least some of the other TSOs who have posted on this board admit that there are 'bad apples' in TSA, just like in any other field. The greater the responsibility, the higher the standards should be. If you are doing an open-palm frisk of a small child or a helpless pax in a wheelchair, you should be held to a very high standard indeed. You should be avoiding even the appearance of impropriety.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14783146)

[If I am undergoing an open-palm frisk at a checkpoint because I am medically unable to assume and hold the position in the WBI, I should not be subjected to other TSOs watching, laughing and joking. Even if I am not the object of their amusement, the conduct is inappropriate. Security is serious business and no one being open-palm frisked should be surrounded by gawkers and laughter. If I were open-palm frisking a pax and I looked over to see you watching, I would stop what I was doing and ask you what exactly you are looking at and why. If you have an active part in the screening, keep a professional demeanor. If you are not participating in the screening, quit acting like a 14-year-old idiot. In short, act like you would want others to act if it's your wife who's being handled intimately in a public setting.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14783146)

[Do me the courtesy of taking my post in the spirit it is written instead of getting defensive and snarky.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14783146)

[BTW, somewhat OT, as I'm sure you are aware, there is a pilot thread on this forum and I'm sure your input would be welcome.

Originally Posted by mikemey (Post 14785018)

You are assaulting me if you touch my genitals without my permission. There is exactly ONE person in this world (other than me) who can do that. And you (And your criminal TSO buddies) are not that person. Touch me there, you'll be searching for your teeth and I'll be filing a complaint with the local LEO.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14786658)

Will everyone be required to train to do these patdowns? I ask because there have been a couple reports of long waits because a trained female TSO wasn't available. I don't know if that means fewer women opt out or fewer women TSOs have been trained.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14786658)

Does a TSO have the option of declining this duty?

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14787332)

So, I guess the next question is can one of the moderators change the title of the thread? It would be nice if this option was available to the original poster... I have seen it on other boards.

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14787303)

My original question was VERY specific... but now it appears to be MY fault for the topic being changed? <shaking head here> Guess I should have titled it "Wound Question"?!

However, to answer your question, I guess I do now know what to expect at the screening next week. Even though I have specific injuries and a recent surgical site, I can still expect those areas to be touched. This does not please me one little bit because they are still very painful. And, despite the explanations given by the TSO's, I still do not understand why someone should be subjected to ANY kind of pain in order to be screened.

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14787639)

I have never seen what you describe. Sorry, not once. I know how we are trained and I know that this is something that would certainly be frowned upon by TSA administration folks. It should not be taking place, period. I’m not saying that it does not happen, I’m fairly sure that what you describe could actually happen, but I would be stunned to actually observe it myself.

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14787303)

My original question was VERY specific... but now it appears to be MY fault for the topic being changed? <shaking head here> Guess I should have titled it "Wound Question"?!

However, to answer your question, I guess I do now know what to expect at the screening next week. Even though I have specific injuries and a recent surgical site, I can still expect those areas to be touched. This does not please me one little bit because they are still very painful. And, despite the explanations given by the TSO's, I still do not understand why someone should be subjected to ANY kind of pain in order to be screened.

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14787639)

Kindly read the entire thread before replying. If you had you might have found the post where I said that we will advise you of what we are doing and why. You might also find the post where I stated that you can say “no” if there is something about the screening you refuse to be a part of. And then you might find where I said that a decision like that has consequences, one of which may be denial of access to the sterile area for both you and your property.

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14787639)

I call them as I see them. And I certainly won’t take the word of many of the posters here. If you think about it you will understand why.

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14787639)

Personal attacks I report, and don’t take personally. No need to worry in that area.

Your right I seem to have missed your point, but then again I told you that I might.

I didn’t make up the rules, I just work with them. I can tell you this, as a person who was raised in the USA I find it less morally disturbing to touch someone through their clothing than to look at someone without clothing (in the checkpoint environment). Its just the way I was raised. Other countries raise their kids differently and teach them differing forms of morality than I was raised with. Diversity, aint it wonderful. But this is the USA, and here the rules are formed based upon what is understood to be the overall basic morals of the nation. There are going to be some people who like yourself feel differently, its unavoidable, but for the vast majority of the nation this works.

Our rules are pretty clear in the naked passenger area. Not allowed. Sorry, it may be more comfortable for you than touching but there are some things that are not going to change about screening. This IMO is one of those areas.



Easy answer. Ask the TSO to bring your belongings into your view before you begin your personal screening. They get it off of the xray belt and put it on the floor near the AIT where you can keep an eye on it. You wont be allowed to touch any of it until you complete your personal screening, but at least you can keep an eye on it.



I call them as I see them. And I certainly won’t take the word of many of the posters here. If you think about it you will understand why.



And I am one of those TSO’s who admit that there are some sub-standard folks working for the TSA. The difference is that I realize that this is a fact that can be found in every employment situation in our country and that if anyone is surprised by the facts then they are refusing, actively refusing, to be realistic.



I have never seen what you describe. Sorry, not once. I know how we are trained and I know that this is something that would certainly be frowned upon by TSA administration folks. It should not be taking place, period. I’m not saying that it does not happen, I’m fairly sure that what you describe could actually happen, but I would be stunned to actually observe it myself.



Honesty is the best policy, and you have been. I see no reason to be less than that myself.



I’ll look for it.



Kindly read the entire thread before replying. If you had you might have found the post where I said that we will advise you of what we are doing and why. You might also find the post where I stated that you can say “no” if there is something about the screening you refuse to be a part of. And then you might find where I said that a decision like that has consequences, one of which may be denial of access to the sterile area for both you and your property.



Yes, we are all trained on these types of searches. New TSO’s are still in training and may not have been as thoroughly trained as a seasoned TSO, but in such cases they are observed and instructed by a training officer.



No.



This kind of thing happens all the time around here, and to be honest its common place across the entire internet in these types of forums. Don’t let it worry you, its expected.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14787742)

This is not clear to me. Suppose I have opted out of the WBI for a medical reason (can't assume and hold the position). You explain that you will be applying open palm pressure over my entire body. I say 'no', the pain will be intolerable and I can't remove the dressing so you can handle the dressing and inspect the wound. You post makes it sound like at that point, I have made a decision and the consequences are that I'm denied access to the sterile area and my flight. That makes it sound like you would then escort me and my belongings back to the non-sterile side of the screening area.

However, my understanding is that this is expressly forbidden. I thought that once a passenger presented themselves to the checkpoint, there is no option to 'opt-out' of the screening process.

What am I missing here?

Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 14787531)

We can certainly do so if warranted. What is the suggested revision?

A couple of timely reminders. First, with a forum of this size it's not possible for mods to read every thread in every forum so posting suggestions to may or may not be read by one of us. Second, if a thread requires our attention for TOS violation or review of thread title, feel free to alert us via the moderator alert icon (red triangle with an exclamation point) located in the bottom left hand corner of every post, or contact us via PM. Please know that while we read every alert we may choose to not take action or respond to the notification.

User permissions are set by the board administrators at the House of Miles and for several reasons are fairly tight on the thread title count. So you all know, moderators may edit thread titles in the fora they moderate and senior moderators and HOM admins may edit titles in nearly any (if not all fora). As for TS/S mods, we rarely do so w/o prompting from the OP or another member.

Again, reach out to us via the Mod Alert or PM function whenever you need assistance.

---------
essxjay
TS/S moderator

Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 14787654)

I don't understand how a TSO can say that they are going to make someone more uncomfortable when that person is already in pain.

I wish to you a pain free travel and future! :) And again, thank you for starting this thread.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14787663)

I think time is on your side right now. You didn't say which airport you're flying out of, but WBIs aren't everywhere yet and not everyone is getting selected to go through them anyway. I will cross my fingers that you're one of the lucky ones who goes through the WTMD.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14787742)

This is not clear to me. Suppose I have opted out of the WBI for a medical reason (can't assume and hold the position). You explain that you will be applying open palm pressure over my entire body. I say 'no', the pain will be intolerable and I can't remove the dressing so you can handle the dressing and inspect the wound. You post makes it sound like at that point, I have made a decision and the consequences are that I'm denied access to the sterile area and my flight. That makes it sound like you would then escort me and my belongings back to the non-sterile side of the screening area.

However, my understanding is that this is expressly forbidden. I thought that once a passenger presented themselves to the checkpoint, there is no option to 'opt-out' of the screening process.

What am I missing here?

Originally Posted by Jetbee (Post 14788070)

Yes, I agree that it is puzzling why a TSO would have to inflict any kind of pain when they are screening a passenger. There just has to be a better way to handle these kind of situations...

Thanks for the concern -- I, too, am hoping there will be no problems when I fly out next week!

Originally Posted by tanja (Post 14788102)

Have a very nice,safe and pleasent flight. Hopefully without pain.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 14787742)

This is not clear to me. Suppose I have opted out of the WBI for a medical reason (can't assume and hold the position). You explain that you will be applying open palm pressure over my entire body. I say 'no', the pain will be intolerable and I can't remove the dressing so you can handle the dressing and inspect the wound. You post makes it sound like at that point, I have made a decision and the consequences are that I'm denied access to the sterile area and my flight. That makes it sound like you would then escort me and my belongings back to the non-sterile side of the screening area.

However, my understanding is that this is expressly forbidden. I thought that once a passenger presented themselves to the checkpoint, there is no option to 'opt-out' of the screening process.

What am I missing here?

Originally Posted by tanja (Post 14787801)

Ok. I am born in Sweden and moved here 15 years ago when I was 42.

So to me this is so weird. I do think that it is dubbel morals /standard. that it is ok to touch but not to see. And I am really concerned if you have an handicap or disability. You are going to make the best of it. What if a person is so handicapped that they dont understand? Plus if you are already is so much pain and is not allowed by the doctor to put any pressure on. What do you then do?

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 14788467)

I can’t go into the specifics of screening procedure, but I can tell you that portions of the scenario you present should not be happening at a TSA checkpoint.

OK, here is the overview. Every passenger boarding an aircraft must be screened to a specific degree. For PWD’s (Persons with Disabilities) we have procedures on how to meet that specific level of screening. Methods vary depending on the type of disability, but the level of screening remains the same. That level of screening must be met for every single passenger.

We are going to do our very best not to cause a passenger any physical pain, but there may be times when it is unavoidable and the passenger must make a choice at that point about which is more important. It is also important that the passenger assist us in telling us about pain areas or areas where special concern must be taken. In the case of someone who cannot communicate, their assistant must tell us.

Our responsibilities are not just to the passenger in front of us, but to all of the passengers collectively. When they get on an aircraft they know that every other passenger has been through the same level of screening that they have.