This is quite a breathtaking display of ignorance.

To suggest that the people can simply ignore the Constitution and the intent of the Founding Fathers because that cherished document was written at a more - shall we say - "quaint time" is patently absurd.

You are correct, Ron. The Founders couldn't see into the future and they made a very specific and sound allowance for adopting changes to that document by a very detailed and hurdled process to ensure that the Constitution is just changed willy-nilly.

If you think the Constitution is a burden to keeping this country safe, then I suggest you quash your blatant ignorance and read Article V and start pushing your Congressperson or Senator to amend the Constitution in the way you think is best.

I also suggested that you consult a local specialist or some other trusted party that knows the child and his limitations. Traveling with a special needs child is at best difficult, you may need to start preparing his several days (or more) before the planned trip.

We all have our burdens to bear. The parents need to decide if the purpose of the travel is worth the effort that must go into traveling with a child of this type. Only the parents can decide this.

Nice twist. No, they have to make a decision about the health of their child and if the travel and all that it entails is worth the affect it will have on the child.

In some jurisdictions knowingly subjecting a special needs child to needless high stress situations that may cause harm to that child can be construed to be abusive by the appropriate authorities.

Maybe you should have tried understanding the statement before commenting. I have such hopes for you, but the above statement gives me reason to pause.

I said:To which N965VJ replied: OK, let me see if I can clarify it a bit for you.

Our founding fathers were wise enough to realize that our nation would progress. Become more than they could imagine. They intentionally included in their documents the ability for their concepts of government to evolve, to become “more”, to “progress” along with the society it serves. They could not have envisioned our society as it is today, but they knew that there would be significant changes beyond their ability to fathom.

N965VJ failed to understand the statement, but it did not prevent him from making a comment that was less that astute. My comment didn’t “proves the arrogance of a dangerous organization”, it acknowledged that out nation as we know it is nothing that our founding fathers could have envisioned. What was arrogant was his comment. It indicates that there is no way for the TSA in his eyes to be more than his opinion, an opinion which seems quite stagnant.

Would that apply to TSO's too?

It's pretty hard to prepare a special needs person when you can't even prepare an able-bodied person on what to expect. The information on the website is unreliable (NEXUS, for example, and requirements for infant food, medical exemptions). So how do you prepare a special needs individual, even someone who is mentally competent but physically handicapped, when you don't know yourself what you will encounter? Belts on? belts off? full body open-palm frisk? Wanding? Barking? Stay in wheelchair or be forced to argue to defend right to do so?

Not quite. The framers did envision that without proper specific restraints, that the new government would "progress" toward tyranny, just as occurred with many new systems. Their plan was to institute a government based on liberty of the people and a highly restricted national goverment that had specifically delegated powers. Powers not delegated to the new federal government were reserved for the states or the people.

Only by changing the meaning of the original constitution through amendment or by judicial fiat and even by congressional usurpation of power never delegated to it have we come to this point. The understanding that our constitution is a living and breathing document has been developed so that those in power could breath into it whatever they wanted it to mean. The clear meaning of words no longer count for much.

No, they knew exactly what would happen and put down enumerated powers that the federal government could not exceed. Now, take out your constitution as amended and find the enumerated power that allows the creation of the TSA. Try not to breathe any extra meaning into it.

Here is a bit of help in your quest.

As a bystander to your constitution, the "quaint time" made me laugh ... that "quaint time" was also a time when guns were essentially required. Try to take the "right to bear arms" away from some of your folk now, even though no one has to go shoot their dinner any more ...

" A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "
I don't see anything in there about dinner. Do you?

As CM says above, its not about getting dinner. Its about the citizens holding the final check on government. The absolute ability to change a government that is no longer serving its original purpose of serving the citizens. Armed insurrection has been used in our country before to tell a government that it no longer serves the needs of the people, and has only been used as a last resort.

TSA does not constitute a reason to use that last resort, despite the rhetoric that is OMG so common here. Not even close. PhoenixRev�s comment ignores so many possibilities and was designed only to try and belittle my point, not to understand its meaning. Another comment that was less than astute.

Have you ever provided care for a special needs child? If not then there is no real point in trying to explain the realities of that kind of situation to you. If you have then you are being intentionally obtuse, which I have to admit would go against everything I have come to admire about your posting here (IOW I would have a hard time believing if of you).

Ron, how does your comment even begin to address Chollie's comment?

Perhaps you can enlighten us about how TSA prepares its employees to delicately handle special needs or disabled children? They should be able to travel, visit loved ones, and experience life just like the rest of us without being traumatized at a check point. You (as a TSO) are far more likely to have to face children with severe disabilities or special needs than terrorists.

Yes, I have and do. A special needs adult with the mind of a child. In many scenarios. we can 'practice' at home. But all h*** breaks loose when there are unexpected deviations from what he considers the 'norm' and it can take forever to resolve the situation.

His physicians certainly have no problem with him travelling. There's no physical reason not to, and we have racked up many airline miles travelling without a problem.

We can practice 'take your shoes off'. We can practice 'I will carry your MP3 until we get through the archway, and then I will give it right back, I promise' (when walking was still an option).

We can't practice for someone suddenly throwing an unanticipated curve like 'take off your belt' or 'take off your vest' or a big drawn out discussion about "can he really not get out of the wheelchair" (um, trust me, if you want to go that route, it will take forever and you will finally realize he is not capable of making it through the WTMD without touching the sides). Heck, he can't walk through a doorway anywhere without grasping the sides. And yelling or talking in an unnecessarily LOUD voice doesn't help. He gets upset and defensive. He's not deaf and the nature of his mental impairment is not such that talking louder facilitates better understanding.

Believe it or not, it can work quite well. But sadly there are the TSOs who don't get what 'special needs' can encompass. It can cover blindness, deafness, mental impairment coupled with apparent physical health. A TSO who rebuffs a pax who approaches ahead of time and explains "we've done this many times. We can satisfy all necessary screening requirements without undue hassle for anyone". Instead we immediately get pushback: "maybe you should drive, maybe he shouldn't fly, we have to follow our procedures, bla bla". It isn't always that simple. Maybe at your checkpoint, but please be honest and admit that you don't know what goes on at other checkpoints and other airports. Not everyone who posts a bad experience is a liar, it isn't always the pax who is wrong, and sometimes video clips do tell enough of the story to make it clear a TSO created a situation or escalated one when it was completely unnecessary.

It doesn’t. Nor was it meant to. Caring for a special needs child is beyond the comprehension of anyone who has not done it. 24x7 care for the special needs children of our world must be experienced to be understood, and without that experience I might as well try to describe colors to a blind man. I could never have anticipated the things I have had to do to care for a special needs child, even the foster care training I received was not adequate to that task. No training can be, there are far too many variables.

I could “enlighten” you but that would be a violation of our instructions about procedures. SSI IOW. I am more prepared than most TSO’s in this area because of my extensive experience with special needs kids, but there is no way that any single person can be prepared for the massive variety of children with special needs. And yes, they are quite common on the checkpoint.

Here is what I can tell you. Getting special needs adults or children through the checkpoint is a collaborative effort of both the care givers and the TSO’s. Both must work together to accomplish the goal. Care givers provide a known calming influence for the PWD and needed information for the screening force, and TSO’s train extensively to screen them. Care givers can do many things to prepare the PWD for the checkpoint, such as talking them through the experience and telling them what to expect, doing mock screenings at home (as far as they are able), making a game of it, etc. They can also tell us about anything that might upset the PWD and anything that would make screening more difficult/impossible. We make special allowances for PWD’s and their care givers on the checkpoint, but we must also provide them the same level of screening that every other passenger receives.

You have my admiration. I have not had to deal with special needs adults, but I understand the issues involved and can only stand in awe of anyone who makes the decision to care for these special people.

We both know that there are many things one can do to prepare a challenged individual for the checkpoint experience. If you ever run out of ideas there is an entire community of professionals ready and willing to assist. But nothing in this world is 100%, we can only do our best.

There are not many TSO’s with my experience I’m sorry to say. But that is where folks like yourself come in, you are the main caregiver for the PWD and can either make or break the checkpoint experience for them. I have seen parents ask for a supervisor the second they arrive at the checkpoint and either ask for specific screeners they have worked with before or trust the supervisor to find the best person to screen their child. One of the things we are taught as screeners is that YOU are the best tool for us to use to get your child / loved one through screening. A good TSO will use that resource. A great one will wear that resource out to make the experience the best it can be.

But no matter how good the TSO or the care giver, there are going to be PWD’s that just are not going to be able to get through the checkpoint without significant problems. Its just a fact, and a sad one for all that. Our job is to minimize those as much as possible, and sometimes we fail. Sorry, we are human. Just like you.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ed-ord-t5.html

Yet another report of a traveller with an injury having the injured area treated roughly by a TSO. The way that some TSOs treat passengers on this thread leads me to believe that they most likely act in a similar fashion whilst on the job.

So Ron, when do you think TSA will start working WITH the public instead of against the public?

Why ?

Of cause it is the parents of my handicapped grandson who has the last word about if he shold travel or not.
They have decided that if they want to visit USA he is going to come to. They would not leave him behind.

Of cause they think it is an important trip to make. To visit her mother (ME) and his grandmother (ME).

His doctor think that a trip to USA is very good for him. Because he is very close to me and I am one of his consultants.

And NO you cant prepare a child like that. He cant talk or hear.Very sensitive to what goes on around him. Strangers he is terrified of.

He cant walk , has diapers. He cant even eat or drink by him self.

He cant be seperated from his parents at all.So this little boy cant "help" out the TSA at all. He cant do anything what he is "told" to do. Simply cause he will not understand.

Plus as I said before . He is SWEDISH.

And this family should be able to visit family without being harrassed.

USA is loosing more and more tourists by the minute. No wonder. Nobody wants to be treated bad.

And the tourist board wonders why.