Organized resistance to WBI/invasive patdowns
Sep 7, 2010, 11:31 pm
#347
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
Well cath labs use fluoroscopy for the procedures that would extend to a lot more other procedures (GI flow, Epidural steriod injections, etc).
Im sorry TSA full of it and I wont be going through one of these perverted devices as i dont need to add to my life time radiation dose. Then that TSA wont produce the machine specs or certification documents yet another reason not to trust them on top of the mountain of incidents and evidence to date already.
#TSAFAIL
Im sorry TSA full of it and I wont be going through one of these perverted devices as i dont need to add to my life time radiation dose. Then that TSA wont produce the machine specs or certification documents yet another reason not to trust them on top of the mountain of incidents and evidence to date already.
#TSAFAIL
Yet TSA's machines are out in the open, unshielded, to expose anyone nearby.
At least one of our new sites has a link to EPIC's home page, but there is also a comlaint/incident report form that deserves a direct link alongside the ACLU's:
EPIC Body Scanner Incident Report
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Sep 8, 2010 at 8:29 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Sep 8, 2010, 11:38 am
#348
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FLL - Nice and Warm
Programs: TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 1,025
What is the average IQ of a TSA Screener?
Sep 8, 2010, 11:41 am
#349
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,606
At least one of our new sites has a link to EPIC's home page, but there is also a comlaint/incident report form that deserves a direct link alongside the ACLU's:
EPIC Body Scanner Incident Report
EPIC Body Scanner Incident Report
keep 'em coming!
So we wondered what the average IQ of a TSA Screener is?
1. Door Knob
2. Dung Beetle
3. Sarah Palin (for you Democrat left wingers)
4. Nancy Pelosi (for you Republican right wingers)
5. All of the above
6. None of the above, IQ scores don’t go into the negative
1. Door Knob
2. Dung Beetle
3. Sarah Palin (for you Democrat left wingers)
4. Nancy Pelosi (for you Republican right wingers)
5. All of the above
6. None of the above, IQ scores don’t go into the negative
Sep 8, 2010, 6:35 pm
#353
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
At least one of our new sites has a link to EPIC's home page, but there is also a comlaint/incident report form that deserves a direct link alongside the ACLU's:
EPIC Body Scanner Incident Report
EPIC Body Scanner Incident Report
Sep 8, 2010, 8:08 pm
#354
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FLL - Nice and Warm
Programs: TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 1,025
Hopeful signs from NY Times
Times Article - Are Scanners Worth the Risk?
brought 63 comments so far, many scathing, and not a single ...-clown in favor of "anything to make us safe"
A positive sign.^
http://community.nytimes.com/comment...el/12prac.html
brought 63 comments so far, many scathing, and not a single ...-clown in favor of "anything to make us safe"
A positive sign.^
http://community.nytimes.com/comment...el/12prac.html
Sep 8, 2010, 10:32 pm
#355
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,792
Offered in the spirit of improving the overall approach:
The website looks very professional and comprehensive, but I have technical concerns about the final paragraph under health risks, which compares mmw scanners to the Raytheon ADS and microwave ovens. While it is true that the ADS and microwave ovens (a) use radiofrequency energy and (b) produce heat effects which can burn or cook, the difference in power between a scanner and these systems are many, many orders of magnitude. (I don't have time to do the numbers now, but it would be something like a million times higher.)
Therefore the final sentence of the paragraph "Millimeter wave is essentially the same technology used by microwave ovens to cook food, and can cause burns and severe eye damage if the devices are not very carefully calibrated." suggests that the scanners could start transmitting at power levels a million times higher than what they're designed to do.
This sounds like opposing a AA-powered Maglite because it uses the same energy as the lasers which can blind you, or opposing batteries themselves because electricity is the same thing used to execute people. Just because two things use the same mode of energy doesn't mean one can suddenly turn into the other. Uncalibrated machines may vary by a few percent, perhaps even 50%, but they don't transmit a million times above their design target.
You all know that I hate the scanners as much as anybody, but this sort of exaggeration hurts our campaign rather than helping it. I would be hesitant to point any of my colleagues to this site, because that comparison is so inappropriate that they wouldn't take the rest of the (excellent) material seriously.
It would be more useful to mention that there are no known* health risks associated with millimeter wave scanners but that the TSA is continuing to deploy the x-ray ones anyway. And then move on to the privacy, time, and theft concerns which are common to both x-ray and mmw scanners.
*There was some report of millimeter-wave energy "unwrapping" DNA. This was based on one research paper with (to my mind) rather questionable conclusions. Citing this would be less problematic than the current text with comparisons to ADS and microwave ovens, but still not very technically convincing.
The website looks very professional and comprehensive, but I have technical concerns about the final paragraph under health risks, which compares mmw scanners to the Raytheon ADS and microwave ovens. While it is true that the ADS and microwave ovens (a) use radiofrequency energy and (b) produce heat effects which can burn or cook, the difference in power between a scanner and these systems are many, many orders of magnitude. (I don't have time to do the numbers now, but it would be something like a million times higher.)
Therefore the final sentence of the paragraph "Millimeter wave is essentially the same technology used by microwave ovens to cook food, and can cause burns and severe eye damage if the devices are not very carefully calibrated." suggests that the scanners could start transmitting at power levels a million times higher than what they're designed to do.
This sounds like opposing a AA-powered Maglite because it uses the same energy as the lasers which can blind you, or opposing batteries themselves because electricity is the same thing used to execute people. Just because two things use the same mode of energy doesn't mean one can suddenly turn into the other. Uncalibrated machines may vary by a few percent, perhaps even 50%, but they don't transmit a million times above their design target.
You all know that I hate the scanners as much as anybody, but this sort of exaggeration hurts our campaign rather than helping it. I would be hesitant to point any of my colleagues to this site, because that comparison is so inappropriate that they wouldn't take the rest of the (excellent) material seriously.
It would be more useful to mention that there are no known* health risks associated with millimeter wave scanners but that the TSA is continuing to deploy the x-ray ones anyway. And then move on to the privacy, time, and theft concerns which are common to both x-ray and mmw scanners.
*There was some report of millimeter-wave energy "unwrapping" DNA. This was based on one research paper with (to my mind) rather questionable conclusions. Citing this would be less problematic than the current text with comparisons to ADS and microwave ovens, but still not very technically convincing.
Sep 8, 2010, 10:47 pm
#356
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
I love the website and hope further activism up to and including civil disobedience at checkpoints can be encouraged through this initiative. I was wondering if it might be possible to set up the infrastructure to allow individuals to send a complaint to their elected representative via the website? It's probably already in the works, but I am unable to prevent myself interfering in this very good cause.
Sep 8, 2010, 11:59 pm
#357
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Programs: Co Gold
Posts: 210
I'd just like to add that if you guys are planning some sort of event, such as a mass opt-out, December 10th is International Human Right Day.
That should give enough time to plan something and get the media on board if it were at all possible
That should give enough time to plan something and get the media on board if it were at all possible
Sep 9, 2010, 5:22 am
#358
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Offered in the spirit of improving the overall approach:
The website looks very professional and comprehensive, but I have technical concerns about the final paragraph under health risks, which compares mmw scanners to the Raytheon ADS and microwave ovens. While it is true that the ADS and microwave ovens (a) use radiofrequency energy and (b) produce heat effects which can burn or cook, the difference in power between a scanner and these systems are many, many orders of magnitude. (I don't have time to do the numbers now, but it would be something like a million times higher.)
The website looks very professional and comprehensive, but I have technical concerns about the final paragraph under health risks, which compares mmw scanners to the Raytheon ADS and microwave ovens. While it is true that the ADS and microwave ovens (a) use radiofrequency energy and (b) produce heat effects which can burn or cook, the difference in power between a scanner and these systems are many, many orders of magnitude. (I don't have time to do the numbers now, but it would be something like a million times higher.)
It is not.
Sep 9, 2010, 7:19 am
#359
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
I agree with the risk of overplaying the health aspect and being labelled as just another 'tinfoil hat' group.
I think it's sufficient to say that the health risks have not been identified or quantified, provide a pertinent non-sensational link or two and let the audience come to its own conclusion.
I think it's sufficient to say that the health risks have not been identified or quantified, provide a pertinent non-sensational link or two and let the audience come to its own conclusion.
Sep 9, 2010, 7:35 am
#360
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Programs: Adrift in a sea of FF programs
Posts: 2,065
I agree with the risk of overplaying the health aspect and being labelled as just another 'tinfoil hat' group.
I think it's sufficient to say that the health risks have not been identified or quantified, provide a pertinent non-sensational link or two and let the audience come to its own conclusion.
I think it's sufficient to say that the health risks have not been identified or quantified, provide a pertinent non-sensational link or two and let the audience come to its own conclusion.