Hossy

If anyone here thinking of joining as a new member in the next couple weeks, PM me.

SFO777

Why?

mwood20

Probably just the referral credit

freq.flyer

Just talked to my flight rep, he confirmed me that they've decided to reduce JetDeals and they'll not "show" again DPJ and Air Hamburg deals. Means that 95% of European's deals are gonna be operated with small Citation mustangs = shorts and limited flights.. (One of the smallest cabin on a PJ, if you're more than 2 inside it's really not confortable at all.. It's a very light jet.)

I'm really deceived that they're shutting down JetDeals slowly.. Of course there is no way to get a refund.

max1011

I received the same offer. Would be a steal to renew for three years if you could be 100% sure that they will survive that long. If they were profitable already I would do it right away. However, since they are still burning money I am very hesitant. Do you have any information on their financials?

millions

Why would it be a steal? What do you value the sophisticated membership at currently?

T-15.01

surely it's pretty obvious why it can be referred to as a steal....!
Soph membership is $50k.....assuming you use the $20k of credit they give you, you can deduct that from your outlay. I'm no CPA, but assume a $20k credit can be used as an imputed cost against income, and thus written off. That being the case, the net cost of membership in this example is $30k....

Buying 3 years upfront attracts a 35% concession; now you're at $97.5k or $32.5k per year. Imputing the $20k credit, again, leaves you at $12.5k per year. Well under half the cost of what it was on a per year basis. Also under the cost of 'smart'.....for those still scratching their heads - it's just over $1k/mth! That gets you unlimited private jets (within token and shuttle availabilities), free helicopters, free catering, can cancel flights up to 24 hrs prior without penalty, etc etc.

A valid caveat is raised by OP ......JS has to remain in operation to fully realize this value, but if they are, this is about as close to a steal as you're going to get!

millions

Surely you understand that I can offer to sell you a three -egg omelette for $1000 each, and then later offer the same omelette for only $300. Has it become a steal?

Sophisticated memberships were initially offered (with more benefits) only about six or seven months ago for only $30k. Those of us who were members then and denied the upgrade did so because we didn't think the value was there. Surely you can understand how we might question how paying more for less is a "steal."

I've always known you were annoying. Now I also know you have very little understanding of economics. They say one might remain silent and be thought a fool. But there are those like you, who speak, and remove all doubt.

Also, your "cost against income" theory is so moronic as to leave me speechless. The credit might be considered income and subject you to MORE tax liability, not less.

Cliff's notes: whether a price set is a "steal" should be based on the actual or perceived value of the product or service, not the seller's previous "full" price. Thus, my very relevant question.

ensnare

I tend to agree with you and am likely going to do it myself. One could easily spend $97.5k on 3 coast-to-coast heavy jet charters. Given their recent Dec '16 $105m raise, I think it's likely they will be around for the duration of the 3-year membership.

helvetic

I think you're vastly overestimating how long $100M lasts in a business like this.

SFO777

This.

At their burn rate, I doubt that $100M would get them to the end of the year.

ensnare

Assuming they have about 8,000 members now with an average spend of $29k/member (source: "Flight Risk" by Verge.com) which would place net revenue at $232m, when factoring in new funding of $105m, they have some runway to make operations more efficient. We're already seeing signs of this: reduced shuttles, smaller planes, supplemental charges, $6k cap on Sophisticated credit spend (meaning difference is new cash). I think it's much more likely services will become reduced or diluted in the coming years. Take this with a grain of salt but a friend of mine had dinner with a creditor of JetSmarter who claimed they were profitable in the month of Dec '16.

Edit: looks like corporate pricing just launched: https://jetsmarter.com/press-center/...mbership-plan/

max1011

1. As I said, 97k for three years with 60k of credit is a steal for sophisticated membership. its basically 12,5k per year when you use all the flight credit, which I do.
2. Is sophisticated membership worth it? For me, yes. I cancel and rebook my flights constantly and use the helicopter to midtown all the time. This alone, the two extra reservation tokens and the priority visibility of new shuttles and deals is worth the spread between smart and sophisticated membership.

In terms of burn. Rumor has it they burn $1m per week, that would give them 100 weeks after their bank account is down to zero. That does not include any pre-payments they might have to make in order to get better pricing or so. And the question is if the $100m was all primaries or also secondaries (founders selling their shares and not the company selling shares)

So either they use this three year pre-payment plan for:
a) to fill their bank account because they are about to be broke or
b) show potential new investors that CLV (customer live time value) can be much higher than it has been so far. Pre-Selling three year contracts paints a much stronger picture to investors than going year to year.

So ideally it would be possible to agree to a three year plan and pay yearly. I will ask my sales rep if that is an option.

ensnare

It's hard to simplify like this because: they could have debt prior to the funding, the funding could be segmented (i.e., $25m / year over 4-years) w/ covenants that must be met, etc..

But since 2012 most of the negative articles I've read have been written by others in the charter market (i.e. Airstream Jets) which may feel a competitive threat, or those who joined in 2012-2015 looking for an all-you-can-eat private jet model (Verge.com), which JS is, in my opinion, shifting away from.

T-15.01

If I deem there's value at $1,000 and you later offer it for $300, then let's just say I'd consider that to be even better value. Not sure I'd say "steal" specifically but "extra value", sure!

yep; I sure can understand how someone would question paying more for less, in general. Many people considering the current 3 year in advance offer were perhaps not around when you got such a great offer. You're comparing their apples to yours, and I don't view them as the same....plus, I'm guessing your offer has since expired, whether you thought it was good or not - so dredging it back up as if it's a fair comparison, is kinda like comparing bank rates today to 6 months ago. Times move on. The offer today is what it is.

wow; not sure why your general criticisms (of JetSmarter) have now turned their attention to me .....and, a private message to boot with "You're an idiot"! How lucky am I? I've heard about fools. Something like it takes one to know one. But what would I know?

You might have me here. I think I said I'm not a CPA, and wasn't sure. There are good ones, and not so good ones. I'd say there's probably all sorts of ways to deduct expenses against income, even perhaps, expenses that you didn't physically reach into thy wallet to remit. But what would I know?

yep, I agree with ya here. Apparently with 8,000 members, many like you have perceived value, and reached into thy wallet to remit required funds. Maybe the word 'steal' got your goat, but whatever way you look at it - it's a discounted rate and adds some risk. The same that prepaying your gas on a rental car does too. If you don't use it all up, you've paid for convenience and something you intended to use, but may not have had the full opportunity to realize. JetSmarter membership paying in advance is already risky in that regard, and doing it 3 years in advance adds to that risk. But some will perceive that there is enough value to proceed in such a fashion. If you or others think Sophisticated is not good value, you may not perceive enough value in the 3-year in advance offer that some have been granted. Or maybe you and others will. End of the day; who cares? I'm not sure JetSmarter are waiting for you or I only to take them up on it. Last I checked the planes are still taking off and landing so someone is still funding it all! They've been around +/- 4 years now. Lots of naysayers but a lot more happy customers and flights that take off and land every day.