As chexfan pointed out so succintly, attack the argument as hard as you like, but not the person.

No matter how much of a "troll" someone may appear to be, they don't deserve personal attacks.

The best way to reduce such "trolling" is to ignore the "troll" - deprive them of FT oxygen - and eventually they may realise the way to acceptance at FT is by active and useful participation.

I for one do not think it is the post count that matters and rarely look over at the number of posts of a poster.
To paraphrase Randy "you are only as good as your last post."
If memory serves me correctly quite a number of high posters have been given a time-out.
Many times people post things that I disagree with and for the most part if I have nothing good to say than I say nothing. I did say for the most part because once in a while (about as often as an eclipse) I post something that I wished that I had not.
Really think that chexfan has got it right on this one.

I agree 100%. I rarely share avek00's opinions, but he has a right to express them without being attacked.

For that matter, I rarely share chexfan's opinions, but I'm with him on this issue! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Vasant

But my opinion is the same as Chexfans, why are you not with me? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Of course I'm with you, ScottC http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif, but that is not a rare event since I usually agree with your take on things.

A small quibble: If people think that someone is trolling, the best response is no response. I don't think a case can be made to prevent or discourage avek00 from posting. BTW, I have repeatedly made this point in the appropriate fora. I think it's a shame that fonseca33 seems to have been chased away from FT. Fortunately (some may say unfortunately), avek00 is not easily intimidated.

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Vasant

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

It's all about being a cool kid on your block! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Firstly ScottC .... if you read the thread again you reference you might indeed find that some of those are folks who have not generally posted anti-Avek comments before AFAIK. He is simply driving MOST folks on the UA board nuts is probably the short answer. If you do some quick checks, it is not one poster, or a dozen, but FIFTY or more who now make such comments.

I can only agree with techgirl above:

I can name, but will not for obvious reasons, two VERY valuable and respected and KNOWLEDGEABLE United Forum members who not longer post - entirely due to this person wreaking on-going havoc in the Forum over the past 6 - 9 months, and the fact no-one has clipped his wings and asked him to cut the flame-bait posts.

Secondly - for anyone terming someone only a "borderline Troll" who posts true gems like these below ... well all I can say is - you are entitled to your opinion - and the fact you seldom post in the UA forum is clearly self evident. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/017252.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/019159.html

Thirdly - avek00 posted himself he is 19 or 20 - so he IS young. He posted it, not anyone else, so one imagines it is factual. If folks "assumed" he was a kid it might be different as they could well be wrong. But they are not. He has attended at least one FT gathering, and the widely posted photos from that event clearly show he is a young FlyerTalker - so what?

Fourthly - avek00 has cheerfully admitted on the board he has not flown UA for years. He is a silver One Pass member he claims, and one imagines his comments might be far more pertinent on the CO board. I read here avek00 has been getting the same reception on the AA boards recently as ScottC mentions above. I almost never read AA so cannot verify that. However assuming that is is correct maybe the problem really is in the fact this person goes LOOKING for trouble and angry responses? <IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ideasmilie.gif"> <IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ideasmilie.gif">

Not flying UA for years should NOT preclude him from posting on the UA board, but posting THAT kind of stuff linked above (and 50 other similar threads) is simply asking for trouble. Neither thread was on-topic or relevant to the UA forum, and neither added to my knowledge of UA. How about anyone else here? In BOTH cases Scott's argument that OTHERS caused the ensuing problem is nonsense I respectfully submit.

avek00 by his thread starting and 1st post respectively did exactly that.

As techgirl has mentioned it, I also agree his admission phoning the private 1K line he should not have had and certainly not have used - under false pretenses to CONGRATULATE United on their new SWU policy was flame bait - pure and simple.

Worse than that - as the Elite agent thanked avek00 and said his comments would be passed on to the Brass - it may have misled United into feeling true 1Ks WERE indeed pleased with the changes - and clearly few were. We all know one positive comment often balances out 100 negatives. Anyone who POSTED that info as he did, and then wonders why he is not popular with folks who really DO fly heavily on United ...................

cblaisd posts above, and as a UA moderator has the very un-enviable job of trying to balance the comments from both sides.

If folks who do not fly an airline restrict their posts to threads they might reasonably know something about, or can add useful FACTUAL input to, I suspect no-one has a problem. avek00 is not always in that category .... IMO.

If avek00 had a Post-It note on his screen saying: "Are you adding a useful and relevant and FACTUAL comment about United when you hit submit, or are you simply hoping and planning to cause a riot?" - it would be a very useful Post-It note.

There is no denying he does at times have interesting and specific FACTS to post, but they get swamped by the flame-bait ones IMO. I for one would like to see him try and restrict himself to the former. And I would be delighted to applaud him if a consistent pattern of that emerged. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 05-16-2003).]

Am I the only one who finds it truly bizarre that avek00 is the #1 cause of locked threads on the United board, somehow the moderators always find a way to blame everyone but avek?

Yes, there are personal attacks, mostly undeserved. But as I've said very often, Avek's posts are there purely to inflame - They are not any more of an "opinion" than some members' opinion that he is pure 100% troll material. It is to me amazing that the UA moderators continously protect his right to troll but act shocked that people might react.

As I posted in another thread, there's delivering a contrarian point of view/opinion, and then there's standing on your bed in your pajamas screaming "neener neener neener" like avek00 so often does. It makes this board looks unprofessional much more than people telling him to finally take a hike.

Of course, his behavior isn't limited to the UA board. When AA was teetering, his participation on the AA board suddenly sky rocketed with incomplete/old wire articles that were, of course, telling a more negative story than was true at any given point in time. Once that matter settled, he went away again. Shocking, isn't it?

There will always be a certain odd-lettered "clique" to defend him, so be it. I think the best way to solve it all is to implement a "block poster"/ignore list functionality. In the end, this would solve the avek problem in two ways - One, people like me wouldn't need to hear his drivel. Two, the lack of attention, which is really in the end all he is craving, would make him go away anyhow.

There's a difference between defending someone, and arguing that personal attacks (and trolling) should not be tolerated. ScottC argues that both should be addressed, and I happen to agree.

The trolling/flame baiting is very much a two-way street however. His extremely long "defense" notwithstanding, ozstamps has posted plenty of flames/flame baits including in threads where avek had not posted.

For ozstamps to complain that avek chased away valuable members really takes the cake in the irony/clueless department, given his own history on FT and the UA board. What's next -- Bill Clinton lecturing the country on adultery? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

To even suggest that avek might be responsible for the SWU changes (1 positive response over 100 negative ones!) is a) beyond retarded and b) ignores the fact that there were actual 1Ks who agreed with the changes. While the sanctity of the UA elite line may indeed have been violated, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif let's not blow this thing out of proportion.

Avek00 is and has been a problem poster on both the UA and AA board. I read post in which I disagree all the time. That is okay with me and sometimes I feel that I gain something from these posts. I learn about anothers prospective and the questions and answers that come from a healthy debate.

I gain no such prospective from Avek. He does not engage in debate. He seems to just make stuff up as he goes. One day he never flys UA, the next he has experience with UA personnel. His post are inflamitory to me and it seems other most of the time. It seems that his sole purpose is to inflame other members. The reason I say this is first I and many others are in fact inflamed by his posts. Second, when I have tried to engage him in debate and questioned his opinions, "facts", or motives he simply cries that he is being attacked and I am not allowed to do that.

This has reach a level of "yelling fire in a crowded theatre." I believe in free speach and love the information and community spirit that is flytalk.com. Avek is not posting with in the furtherence of flyertalk.com. He may not even realize this. I agree we need help with this issue. Thank you for your attention to this problem if possible.

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dallasflyer

WOW

I guess now it is OK for people who do not regularly fly an airline to be chased out of a forum!

At least one of the people critisizing avek for his posts in UA has in the past defended other member(s) who reaked havoc in the CO and NW forums. avek does not fly UA, the other member did not fly NW/CO.

What's the difference?

It all boils down to the clique.

PERIOD

Excellent point!


ROTFLMAO!

Perfectly said.

Not what I suggested at all. Please reread my original post.

I think that it is flamebaiting for a non-1K to call (or allegedly call) the 1K line about an unpopular change and then repeatedly comment on it.

You're not the only one Axey, I agree with you 100%.

As I've said, trolling and making false posts are violaions of FT's standards. In the first cross-thread posted on this thread, in the first one cited by ScottC, Avek was caught in a bald-faced lie. A lie that was posted to further his trolling agenda, I might add. The moderator's response? Close the thread.

Since he admits he hasn't flown UA in "many years," the simplest solution is to ban Avek from posting in the United forum, period. His trolling IS disruptive.