The idiot posting under the handle AvekOO is helping to make the case that the anti-avek crowd is the real problem.

It's probably being done through a proxy, but hopefully someone smart can trace this moron back.

Today's actions are clearly the lowest this argument has gotten.

Gleff, with all due respect to both Randy and our moderators, the title of my thread says it all, enough is enough, this isn't something from the past month, or even past half year, it's been going on for more than a year and although I don't doubt people are working on it behind the scenes more and more damage to FT's credibility is being done every day action isn't take.

While I do not condone avekOO's actions at all, I find it absurd that one could point the finger at the reaction to a problem instead of the root of said problem. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

"Banning" avek00 and g-lining his IP address would only work if he has a static IP. If he is on dial-up, he gets a new one every time.

But even if we "ban" him, what is to prevent him from choosing a new nick and continuing with his "antics" like this avekOO jokester?

As ScottC has noted, avek00's pattern of behavior goes back years. If the senior moderators use such time periods as the "benchmark" for banning someone, well, he could just come back and start up again and it will be another year before we toss him.

Or do they enact a "Three Trolls And You're Out" policy or even a "zero-tolerance" policy?

If speaking with the "offending parties" has not done anything, then perhaps we do have to take the "moral highground" and ignore the posts of those members. Make them "pariahs" of our community and ostracize them so they go away.

Of course, human nature being what it is, that is so, so easier said then practiced.

This is not the first webboard I have seen start to fall apart through the dynamics of it's membership. And it will hardly be the last.

Like techgirl, I also have made the decision to leave some of the more...egregious...boards and, I admit, my life is better for it.

But it is also poorer, as I miss the "good" debates and discussions. Now, I travel to see those people every few months in person, instead of every day virtually. Perhaps that is what some of us may decide to end up doing here, just visiting the "FlyerTalk Community" forum to know when and where to go to see people, free of the flames and slings of the "debate dujour" raging in the other forums.

I've found that once some people really get the message that they are just not welcome somewhere, they do in the end give up. Yes, sure, if Randy told Avek to have a timeout, Avek could continue under another handle. But in the end, does Avek really want to get himself into the kinds of hot waters that could result in criminal trespass charges? Surely not.

I don't think a punishment shouldn't be handed out because one predicts it will not work.

I was a (very non-controversial!) regular on planebusiness.com and agree 100% with kappa. avek00 was largely instrumental in its demise.

The avek "problem" as I understand it is the way threads fall apart concurrent with his participation. It's clearly not a one-sided thing - other folks need to "play the game" in order to wreck a thread. The "root" of the problem is that several FTers have difficulty debating issues like adults, regardless of motive or "baiting."

That said, today's actions by AvekOO are *exactly* the same as those taken by another member impersonating Cleveland Airport. That member has not been seen again - I would suggest the "Cleveland remedy" be applied to today's moron.

I disagree with much of what Avek writes, and sometimes question his motives and delivery. However, blaming this entirely on him is wrong.

Please come by the United board, read the archives, and note the months of reasoned responses by many in this thread (including myself) as well as many others. Then note Avek completely ignoring said well reasoned responses, instead posting MORE provocative material.

Surely, you will realize that most members HAVE tried to discuss like adults, HAVE tried to ignore him, and HAVE tried to reason. The result? Same Avek as always.

The problem is Avek's inability to deal with facts and opinions based on thereof. Not the responses to his flamebait.

Yes, those that still try to find excuses for him should know this -- Avek has struck before. It resulted in closure of an entire bulletin board.

Listen - I've been very up front with my opinion on this subject to those who elicited it privately. It is probably not what you expect.

That said, your argument lacks logic. You cannot claim to ignore a poster, and then claim that he ignores your responses to him. Members do not ignore avek. Recent evidence indicates that people are actually baiting *him* to participate. Folks have responded to his posting an article with personal slams. People ask for his input (sarcastically, maybe) before he posts in a thread.

Avek's personality may be inconsistent with a smoothly operating FT - I don't pretend to understand the sociology of this place. However, the "problem" cannot exist without active participation of those who object to his opinions. Don't insult us by claiming this is sustained entirely by Avek. Or by pretending that AvekOO is simply a natural symptom of this "problem," and not an egregious violation of the rules and trust of this community.

These approaches were outlined in order of attempt. They were not simultaneous. If you had followed the United board you wouldn't have needed to post this.

Hrm, lets see. No Avek provocation, therefore no inappropriate responses and/or alternate personalities. Insulting? No. Pure logic? Yes.

OK folks, the solution is out there, Avek seems sincere in his part of the deal, I propose we let this thread sit for a week or 2 and hope that it can slowly sink into the FT archives as a minor glitch solved over time.

Thanks all!

Please see: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000744.html

One thing to clarify. Moderators do not have the ability to ban a poster or even give them a time out. This is entirely up to Randy and his staff.

I found your prior responses to my posts to be argumentative and "facts" incorrect. Soooo - if I generate the imposter AE "Axey_" and troll in multiple forums in an effort to embarrass *you*, it's your fault, not mine?

Randy - for the integrity of the board, please take action against today's idiot AvekOO (not Avek00). Regardless of the outcome of the "truce," this enormous violation of your/our rules should not be allowed to go unpunished. As discussed in my earlier CHIA post, this is precisely the same deceptive tactic that earned the other user a severe penalty. Inconsistency on this point would set terrible precedent.

Right. I made it all up. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif Incorrect, out of the blue blanket statements without any type of representative examples. Sounds like.. oh nevermind.

Uh, well, if I went around trolling for a year first, then yes it would be. Your example seems to imply that people here just got up this morning and decided to gang up on avek.

And once again, for the record - I already stated the OO (not 00) troll's behavior is wrong. But don't try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes stating that avek is the victim here.

[Edited for UBB]

[This message has been edited by Axey (edited 05-21-2003).]