Randy,

For several months now FT member Avek00 has been participating in the United board offering a view that clashes with several of the regular posters there. Regardless of whether or not I agree with his points of view I am amazed that today saw the birth of yet another gang attack on him. Several users (it's always the same) feel the need to question his posts, his age and his credibility. They build their complaints on his age, but I don't know whats worse, a young member with a "twisted" point of view or grown ups with behaviour like this.

I know that the moderators on United have their hands full moderating these threads but I feel that enough is enough.

The moderators have already made it clear that regardless of someones opinions, if it complies with the FT TOS that person is allowed to post. I'd like to ask you to look into these threads and come up with a solution, it's bad for the United board and as the problem is all over FT I also feel it's bad for FT. If Avek posts in the AA board the "gang" is there in a matter of minutes ready to attack him.

The FT TOS prohibits personal attacks, as these attacks have been going on for several months now to me it looks like the TOS is worthless if it's not upheld.

FT should allow free speech but sadly it might also be a solution for Avek to stop posting there for some time.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../019519-2.html

Enough is enough. Those that don't stick to the TOS should take their timeout, those that TROLL on purpose should cease doing so.

Thank you, Scott.

I'd also invite Randy to email the moderators re this for some thoughts if he wishes.

FYI, I have closed the thread you referenced.

Chuck
aka cblaisd

Not only did Scott hit the nail right on the head, but the problem is much deeper than the constant personal attacks on Avek.

There is a "Clique" here within FT that seems to think that they are "Better" than everyone else. They critisize the layout of the forums, they critisize the moderation and they critisize any memebr who "dares" to contradict them.

At what point do we stop referring to these people as "Valued" members and see them for what they are?

As someone who doesn't have 10,000 or 5,000 or even 1,000 post it seems like a few of those who evidently do, feel that this somehow makes their post and ideas much more valuable then those who don't. Unfortunately it's just a few people but it seems to cut down on the number of post from those that probably have a lot more real information to offer but don't because of these few elitist who have appointed themselves judge of what's valuable to others. I don't know how you control it other than maybe a discreet e-mail from Randy asking them to be a little more tolerant and pointing out that they once didn't have the prescribed number of post. Another option would be to only count the number of post during the past 12 months

------------------
"A day without Points/Miles is like a day without SUNSHINE"

Cameraguy I agree completely. Newcomers to the AC Forum are attacked by the old guard if they challenge of the status quo. It is not a pretyy site. Unfortunately the forum is unmoderated so their attacks go unchecked... it has driven away a few posters in the past, and limits what others, like myself, want to get involved in. Yes I agree with freedom of speech, but there has to be limits.
(Edited because some days I just can't spell)

[This message has been edited by whyyzman (edited 05-15-2003).]

There is a "Clique" here within FT that seems to think that they are "Better" than everyone else.

there are serveral cliques here.
* one got finally rid of 'doc'
* another one is probably the official TalkBoard, keeping more or less everything secret (not informing the FT 'public' about their findings/recommendations
* FT oldies (I am one of those ...)
* etc. etc. etc.

I don't think that being a member of one or several cliques is, by itself, a problem - it is the negativ effects/posts of individiual members (by far not all) of such a clique, directed against non-clique members/-individuals/-groups, that should (be) stop (ped).

ZERO for President, I guess.

Perhaps a bit off point, but whatever DID happen to "doc"? His posts were everywhere, about everything.

I offer a counter point of view. Avek00 does seem to troll quite a bit. He is very quick to point his doomsayer philosophies about any airline other than his beloved CO and also to gloat when frequent flyer benefits are lost.

He invoked the wrath of the UA folks when he had the gall to call the private 1K line (to which he should not have access) and congratulate them on the "good business move" of restricting the use of SWUs. And despite his admission that he hasn't set foot on a UA plane in the past couple of years, he seems to spend hours in the UA forum giving his "constructive" input to the threads.

I don't agree that the personal attacks should be allowed but many members have hit wits end at the endless trolling by him. He seems to go out of his way to invite these types of attacks and then actively participate in them.

TG, I agree, which is why the title of my post is about trolling AND personal attacks.

Sadly Avek is FREE to post whatever he feels like on FT, as long as it's not a personal attack etc... But OTOH as much as people may be annoyed by it the personal attacks ARE NOT allowed yet they do seem to be tolerated.

The whole 1K line thing WAS indeed pretty low, but to constantly bring it up is too harsh, it's not like Aveks single call prevented the new SWU rules from being implemented.

[This message has been edited by ScottC (edited 05-15-2003).]

Very thoughtful posts throughout this thread.

I personally, see some of his posts and quotes on the verge of trolling. BUT, I respect and admire people who can stand up and articulate a well positioned argument on either side of the coin. Not everyone can post their feelings, especially if they are in the minority and beaten down because of it.

Back to scott's point about the Personal Attacks being allowed, I feel that this is happening b/c avek's posts are in the minority of what people believe and what they want to hear. This is unfortunate. It's tough to go against the majority.

Again, go back to the good ol FT Mantra, "Challenge a person's ideas and thoughts... not the person" I think this has been lost in arguments against avek.

while recently I tried (in vain) to defend avek against some attacks, I didn't appreciate this post at all and decided to just 'avoid' him in future. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../000725-3.html

techgirl,

I agree that some of what avek posts is borderline trolling, but that in itself does not justify the contstant attacks.

As for the sentiment that he is not welcome to post due to not flying UA. Some of the very same people who are looking to run him out of the UA forum for that reason have defended other members rights to post wherever they see fit.

It all boils down to the "Clique" and how they treat people here on FT. If you are one of the "Drinking Buddie's" or one of their favorites, you can do no wrong. If not, you are not welcome.

Exactly.

I agree, the certain UA people can be mean. I found out about the UA SWU changes months before they happened and posted a warning. While most were appreciative one or two people were so into crapping on me that the point was lost. Sigh.