My issues are not with avek00 as a person, for I have never met him and know nothing about him, so it's pretty hard to form any sort of opinion on him.

My issues are with his often (not always, but often) inflamatory remarks in the UA forum that seem to serve only two purposes:

1) inciting almost Pavlovian replies from a handful of FTers, almost always disparaging;

2) forcing the moderators to close these threads, thereby denying the remaining FT community on the UA forum the chance to discuss/debate the issue.

I have attempted to debate avek00 on many of his statements, but generally he ignores any rational/logical/reasonable rebuttal in favor of those who do not respond that way to him, helping to fan the flames until the moderators come in and close the thread.

Only this morning, two threads on reports that UA may be considering leaving bankruptcy in Q3 2003 instead of Q2 2004 have been closed - one within three responses. In both cases, avek00 made a comment that UA should exit C11 by filing C7. Within seconds, the Pavlovian attacks began and the moderators had to close the threads moments later.

Frankly, both parties are at fault. avek00 for using language he knew would upset UA flyers, and "the usual suspects" who seem to only be able to respond to his posts with sarcasim and derogatory comments.

avek00 should be privately counseled to moderate his tone. He is welcome to post on the UA forum even if he does not fly UA. But just as I would be out of line to constantly reply to every post in the CO forum - regardless of topic - with "Gordon Bethune is an idiot and CO will file C7 because he runs them", avek00 is also out of line with his equally inflammatory remarks in the UA forum.

As for "the usual suspects", they also need to be counseled privately to "shoot the message, and not the messanger". Debunking the views of avek00 with factual, knowledgeable, and intelligent replies is far more effective than calling him names.

Banning avek00 will solve nothing in the long run. We must all acts like adults, regardless of our age, and remember that FlyerTalk is a community and not a verbal wrestling ring.

And, Randy - it was wonderful seeing you and Julie last weekend here in Seattle.

I disagree. It would solve the problem, which is caused by the juvenile antics of one teenager.

If we use your logic, we should blame the Holocaust on the Jews. After all, it was their fault that they stayed around and let the Germans kill them when they could have left quietly?

And leaving quietly is what a lot of posters are doing because of Boy Zero's games. Look how the number of posts on the UA form has dropped off!

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-Otto

Done.

(Actually done a few hours ago, but I forgot to post here to let you know!)

(Getting BACK to topic that Moderator Sean just steered us away from. Didn't I read topic drift is frowned on in 'Trip Reports'? )

Otto Graham. Well who knows, if avek00 possibly attracts a time-out for his antics in the past few days, it may have some beneficial effect?

Many would feel his techgirl/Betty Ford Clinic crack warranted that on its own.

Until another "juvenile teenager" comes along and spreads their "antics" that then...compel...a group of FTers to take the same stance?

Where does it end? With everyone leaving the forum?

I'm reminded of that episode of original Star Trek where the two beings with inverted facial coloring, the last two of their kind, fighting it out amongst the embers of a world utterly destroyed.

SEA_Tigger .... did you also read page one and page two of this thread? Techgirl has left FT for a self imposed time out yesterday. Her recent post here on this thread is above.

Would YOU blame her after what was said and done to her? The clear FACT is there is NOT a bunch of anti-UA kids running around the UA forum. Just ONE, and this thread is here to discuss that Flyertalker.

3 pages and 95 posts and sadly no reaction from Avek, I'd like to invite him to dispute any possible incorrect facts here, I hope that if he does so in a correct and friendly fashion we are all willing to listen to him. I'm pretty sure he's following this thread so I feel it's time he got to say his part too. Randy is obviously on the road and I personally think it would be a great acomplishement if we, the community manage to solve this problem ourselves without the need for external intervention.

"Ban him" or "tell him to leave" don't sound like the correct solution, I'm sure as a group we can all find a better way to solve this.

Scotty, I think SEA_Tigger offered up a legit two-sided solution above:

Chex,

From what I understand this approach has been tried over and over again, the moderators seem to have given up on this method... We'll need some firm commitments from both sides to solve it. I don't expect anyone to commit to anything until Avek at least gives us his point of view and a something to grasp. The posts made by him this morning and the closed threads do not give much hope that the situation will change without some kind of compromise.

SEA_Tigger and chexfan have it exactly right. And, fyi, the Moderators have done both numerous times.

They have? Why has the situation not gotten better? Why is Avek still acting like he did before? Why are the moderators closing threads that do not violate the TOS?

In the end, this proves the point even more.. if even the moderators have intervened with Avek privately, and he is ignoring THEM, it is time for his timeout. End of story, in my opinion.

Yes if the moderators have emailed twenty others to cool it, and also avek 20 times .......

I never was good at Math. But something is wrong with this picture?

He is posting fanciful BS right now. I have asked him to supply it - but he does not have a SHRED of evidence to back up either dream - you can bet the HOUSE on that:

Pure 100% Troll stuff.

And here is why trolls and trolling posts should be removed:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum71/HTML/016400.html and http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...L/016399.html.

Were I a moderator in the AA forum, I now have a nice little problem: these posts are the same type/delivery of troll that the "real" avek00 gets away with consistantly in every major airline forum except for CO; so can these posts be locked (and why?) without locking down the threads involving the same type of stuff as the original? It's inconsistant if these get locked down. Same content. Same delivery.


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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

Nothing whatever to do with me, but we have Avek doubles popping up now:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum71/HTML/016399.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum71/HTML/016400.html

I have to admit the first one was pretty humorous.

Consider that most of what has been said about the folks in question in this thread has been said.

And certainly some of the comments about individual members on this thread push the envelope themselves.

No doubt SEA_Tigger's advice is sound, and cblaisd confirms that the UA moderators are following a similar tact.

So the moderators are on the case, Randy has already been alerted, and several folks have agreed that -- whether effective as a deterrent or not -- FT members should respond to the substance of posts they disagree with and not to the posters.

And my own advice would be (although I've failed this on numerous occasions myself) to ignore posts that you personally believe to be flame bait.

In the meantime, let's all leave it in the hands of the UA moderators and Randy. And if that solution doesn't do the trick for you, how likely is it that public venting will?

Now it's off to OMNI to comment on the R.E.M. thread. I could sure use some Shiny Happy People right about now.