I am not trying to get rid of Avek. I am hoping that Randy can get Avek to realize that he needs to more carefully consider what he says before posting. It is just a socialization thing. I post things at times which are unpopular, I take time to carefully consider my words as they have effects on people. You have people in the UA and AA forums which feel strongly about the airline that they fly and they live with that airline everyday. Then you have someone come in a make things up, I think lie about things, and give out opinions which are basically mean without a basis in fact or experience. This equates to rude behavior in a public place. Randy or Moderators really are the only ones that can do anything about it. Yes we can just ignore it. But time after time it becomes very difficult to ignore someone who is exhibitng harrassing behavior while you are trying to conduct an intersting and serious discussion in a public forum. This would be true if it were live chat, a face to face discussion with a group of people or on a bullitin board such at FT. I am hoping that Avek's behaviour becomes modified to the good. I think a great example of Randy's ability to modify a posters behavior is Ozstamps. If you check my former posts, I had some bitter comments about his posts, in the last few months the tone and contents of his posts have changed and so the good information and his intent have shone through. Hopefully this can also be accomplished with Avek.

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dallasflyer

OK, I'm somewhat of a new guy on the block here, but I feel compelled to toss in my 2c on avek00's posts. On more than one occasion, I've seen this individual post extremely inflammatory responses and pointless original threads that serve no purpose other than to evoke anger in response (which he's been quite good at).

That this individual has little factual knowledge of commercial aviation is evident, but what is more despicable is that the posts serve no purpose other than to promote negativity and inflame. IMHO, I have yet to see a post from him that has any merit whatsoever; while it's fine to have a "take" that goes against the grain, most of these opinions are foolish, provocative, negative and unhelpful. Perfectly useful threads have had their tone completely reversed from positive to absolute garbage by one stroke of this guy's enter key.

Be that as it may, on the other side of the coin, we are all adults and can choose our responses. Yep, I've been sucked in a few times and shot back some barbs based upon the emotions that this person has stirred up in me, but I'm going to try and discontinue this practice. Nothing that we do is going to stop this person from having and posting his opinion (short of being banned for expressing an opinion or opinions that most may find inflammatory, which, IMHO, is wrong).

I would agree that ignoring these foolish posts may serve some purpose in the future, but it's my guess that repeated written disapproval by the FT community toward the negativity expressed by avek00 (gadflies seem to actually enjoy personal attacks, feeding their desire to continue) will eventually force him to move on.

Well, I honestly thought it was a gang, until I read many of the replies in this thread, including those that normally stay out of attacks on Avek, it DOES seem to be a more widespread problem than I thought…

Have no clue about the AA board, but I really believe the feeling of many above is held by a LOT more on the UA board than ever post on the threads.

I get emails from some pretty conservative folks agreeing with posts I have made. Others who post may receive the same feedback - I can't speak for them.

There are some good suggestions above that may resolve the issue somewhat.

edited for better judgement

[This message has been edited by chexfan (edited 05-16-2003).]

All of us need to take a lesson from the statement above, sometimes. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Any of you who may have participated on the Plane Business BB (as I did), before Holly Hegeman closed it down a couple of years ago, will recall how much of a troll Avek00 was on the TWA board during the pre- and post-bankruptcy period leading to the AA takeover. He claimed to be an investor in TWA stock. His inflammatory remarks, often directed at the airline employees, and always at anyone who defended the airline (either as an employee or as a loyal customer), led to the same acrimony as on this FT board.

I believe it was his use the same “handle” on other BBs that resulted in his being ID’d on the PB board as a very young poster and student (at I seem to recall a school in Georgia). In any case I believe his trolling posts, and the bait TWA loyalists could not resist swallowing, were a major reason for the locking down of the PB board. It was THE favorite venue for dialogue between and among TWA employees and the almost cultish VERY loyal TWA FF affecionados, of which I was one until they sold the international routes to AA.

I’m not an exceptionally active FT poster, but am a daily visitor. I’ve been around long enough to know the alleged ‘cliques’ cited above, and have met many of their alleged clique ‘members’ at DOs in NYC and DUS. I think this is irrelevant to this matter.

However, I agree that this poster IS a big problem; and one causing great concern to many of the most valuable contributors to this board.

Thus I hope Randy will recognize the problem and take appropriate action!

Uh Oh. chexfan giving lessons??? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

All I know is that trolling and personal attacks are driving me away from FT a little bit every day. I used to spend hours daily pouring over threads and absorbing valuable information, now I spend minutes a day glancing at threads and trying to filter good information among personal attacks and misleading info.

While it is against the TOS to mount personal attacks, it is equally wrong to present misleading information, pretend to be an expert on a particular subject matter without anything to back it up, or posting for the pure purpose of inciting heated responses.

I have already more or less withdrew myself from participating in DOs, I never did post that much to begin with, and if a suitable solution cannot be found regarding trolling and personal attacks, I doubt I will be doing much reading in the future either.

Those of us who fly 100,000 miles a year can participate in FT as embedded reporters. Not only are we on the front line, we are directly affected by the actions taken by the airlines and their employees.

avek00 participates in FT like a reporter sitting in the safety of a TV station, albeit probably his dorm room. He is no where near the action and, although he's full of ivory tower opinions, he is safely tucked far away from any consequences his statements -- such as calling the 1K desk -- may have on those of us who spend many days a month in the air.

Maybe it's my own superstition or paranoia, but it is frustrating to have his inflammatory statements floating around cyberspace for the bean counters to read when he is no where near the line of fire for any consequences his statements may precipitate.

I'm neither an old timer nor a clique member; I rely on FT for valuable information and related opinions from those who know what they are talking about -- avek00 clearly contributes neither.

I don't know how this situation should be handled, but I would prefer that avek00 didn't waste my time as I read FT for business reasons more than as a hobby.

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Biggest Little 1K (in The Biggest Little City) In The World

I THOUGHT, that not only were personal attacks against the TOS, but that we were not to debate other members and their contributions?

When I did not think that a member who was participating in the CO/NW forums was adding anything remotely accurate, I was told (by some of the very same people that are attacking avek) that if I did not like ***'s posts, I was free to ignore them.

So, I will state this to the lynch mob:

If you do not like avek's posts:

FEEL FREE TO IGNORE THEM!!!!!!!

Wow, now I'm agreeing with chexfan and CameraGuy in the same thread! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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Vasant

Well, I guess I'am guilty of attacking Avek00 several times but I really feel like the only reason why he is posting on this forum is to get people excited and angry. His comments do not add anything to any topic he covers.

Ok, as soon as you give me an ignore function.

OK *poof* you now have an ignore function.
Seriously though how hard can it be.
I have had the pleasure of personally meeting some of the posters in this thread who have received "time outs" from the owner on occasion(s).
The interesting thing is that they are in person really nice folks. Give them a keyboard and something seems to take place in their thought processes and all of a sudden they lose sense of reality.
I have also met avek00 (and a couple of his "attackers") in real life and came to the conclusion that even though they all stutter when they talk, they are all pretty darn good people.
I believe I also met the personality that cameraguy was referring to in his post and if you and I meet and talk face to face I will mention things about this personality like holding a forum "hostage" and "hit and run" and will tell you that in real life the person is a nice guy who "tap dances" when he talks.

Now back to the thread topic, opinions and observations.
•Certain things seem to upset some more than others. act accordingly
•Trolling seems not to upset the owner as much as attacking another poster does. act accordingly
•Make an effort (a bigger one than you have done previously) to actually go and meet someone from ft and get a real surprise in life act accordingly
•If you are rudi do not go to the u-30 event as you may be mistaken as the ringleader act accordingly http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
•Finally do not believe a word I wrote act accordingly