I think PremEx has said it best: Simpler is often better. And you BIG BRUDDAR said it better than I ever could.

Let us ALL give ideas and let you, Randy, decide what you will implement. (TalkBoard can ALL THE FLYERTALKERS!

Trust me: If your ideas don't work WE"LL certainly tell you very quickly.

We have to fight for upgrades and points; why fight among ourselves?

Because I do not know how the Talkboard operated, I find it hard to decide if its difficulties are due to HOW it functions ( do members actually meet physically, how often, are debates structured and limited in time, etc.) rather than to the fact that the Talkboard entity itself is by nature dysfunctional on FT.

I hope you get my meaning.

Premex seems to think that the latter is true but I am not convinced.

Perhaps a reconsideration of how the TB carries out business is in order, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

In any case, I am sorry to see Punki throw out the towel, but I fully understand her point of view.

Droneklax writes: Actually I don't have a clue as to what's going on. Frankly I don't even pay attention or visit the TalkBoard forums.

All that I know is that Randy created FlyerTalk mainly from scratch and he did a great job, IMHO. And considering that he doesn't even visit the site as often as most of it's members, I think it operates better than most internet bulletin boards out there.

This fact gives me confidence in Randy's ability to do the right thing most of the time based on his judgement and his judgement alone.

I just don't think he needs some advsiory panel that gives it's members more weight in voice than any other member of FlyerTalk.

A good idea, is a good idea, no matter where it comes from.

Additionally, and something that I did not mention in my previous post:

I have seen damage to people that the dynamics of such a panel will likely always produce. A clash of egos here on FlyerTalk is much more a certainty than in most other ventures, and would certainly be present on TalkBoard.

Personalities here have always been more ego driven than in other places. But that goes literally with the program. Status, elite, privilage, entitlement, all come into play here as part of FF programs and by extension, often the personalities of many of FlyerTalk's members, in my observations.

We can argue about committee management as being inefficient, or Talkboard members getting perceived empowerment big heads, or the monkeys running the zoo analogies all day.

I just think it's unnecessary and forsee it generating more conflict than the good it will produce. Good that Randy could have probably done quicker, more efficently, and without bruising egos and conflict.

All without a TalkBoard.



[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 02-19-2002).]

Repeating and elaborating on a comment I made in another thread:

Randy should give-up the idea of a talk board and appoint Premex his dictator designate. In fact, I nominate Premex as Sha of Flyertalk. Why?

1) Randy has a business to run, and has shown time and again that we ask too much of him to run that business and act at our whim on this board. If Mark, (Premex) were to run it, Randy could get back to his business.

2) Randy and Mark have shown that they can have a good working relationship, collaborating (scheming) during the first PIP and countless other times.

3) Mark has shown himself to be one of the most (if not the most) trustworthy member of this community. He (unlike MANY others who've been here for a while) never lets personal relationships cloud his judgement or prevent thim from acting on or speaking about what he sees as morally inappropriate (other than the sheep jokes).

3) He has practical experience in setting up and running travel related websites (PIP site, Catman-do site, The now defunct unofficial United Airlines site, etc.) He has a huge amount of relevant professional experience.

4) I've never heard anyone say anything negative about him, save for one person, who was banned from this site because of his behavior. And this persons negative comments were because Premex took the high road, and spoke out against a problem.

5) I (and others) have made multiple past pledges to help fund Flyertalk in some way. If it would be deemed appropriate by Randy, I'm sure Premex could be somewhat compensated in this manner. What we would be buying is someone to concentrate solely upon hearing, judging and solving the community's issues with more time devoted than any head of Inside Flyer/Webflyer can spare.

So again, I nominate Premex dictator. I would hope his first move would be to dissolve the Talkboard (or just allow it to continue to collapse from the weight of it's own hypocrasy), but I assume he would see my comments as just one individual's opinion based upon personal experiences, and regardless of me or anyone else, just do the right thing.

Please feel free to disaree with me. In fact, if the same people disagree with me who always do by rote, I will be very appreciative, as it will again (as always) serve as confirmation of what a good idea it is.

Further, if someone were to perhaps post not just an opposing viewpoint from their heart in their own words, but were to take the time to find almost everyone of my posts on the subject of the talkboard and post links to them here, and also take the time to find any words in those posts that could be used as "amunition" and further quote and highlight them out of context with no purpose other than to engage in a personal, hurtful attack - than this would show beyond any doubt that that this person has no real life (save for Flyertalk - which is doubly sad because he or she can't even follow it's own rules) and would also show that he or she is the type of low-life scum that would not just disagree with someone, but go out of their way to premedtiate and plan that attack, just to try to inflict the maximum damage. That type of reply would do nothing but show how correct my points actually are, and how sad the individual is.

But I'm sure no one in our community would stoop so low as to do that here in Randy's forum.


[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 02-20-2002).]

LOL!

NJ David writes:

Randy should give-up the idea of a talk board and appoint Premex his dictator designate. In fact, I nominate Premex as Sha of Flyertalk.

AND I SECOND THE NOMINATION!

For all the reasons NJDavid gave... and NOT because PremEx is my BIG BRUDDAR.

Oh God no!

The Mein F�hrer of FlyerTalk is hardly a title I would relish.

But thanks for the kind words (I think) anyway, NJDavid.

But whenever and if ever Randy asks for my advise, I'd be happy to give it to him...gratis. As always. As I'm certain most of us would.

Dictator sounds so... dictatorial. How about Emperor, or better: First Consul , head of a triumvirate.

We already have a Queen, and a few Queens on FT, so high-caliber leadership will not be an issue....

Well dictator is not the right word.

I say... CHIEF SHEEP HERDER ;-)

"We are poor little lambs who have lost our way..."

CATMAN (who just wants to be the comic relief of FT)

---

Admittedly, I'm no expert on "hypocrasy" yet I think your view of the TalkBoard has been expressed with some real "vigor" in ealier threads. As was previously summarized in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000637.html

Just a modest sampling of some of your recent posts regarding this issue reveals desriptions and terms including:

"hypocrisy"

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000582.html

"tainted sham"

"irreversably removes any credibility from what otherwise might have been a good initiative"

"Randy's 'Flyertalk' name is stained"

"travesty"

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000014.html

"anarchy"

"storm troupers"

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000608.html

Needless to say, with all due respect, I do not agree with you one iota!

---

Is it possible that the "TalkBoard" is actually a part of Randy's vision?

FWIW, as I see it, the nascent TB, is simply a devoted, earnest group of "representatives" who help to serve the entire FT "community" by effectively funneling all the collective ideas, complaints, etc, to Randy & Co, in an organized as well as expeditious manner. Randy would not necessarily be obliged to abide by the policy recommendations - at least as I presently understand it. He would remain as the one who serves as the ultimate arbiter in any case! So there'd be no danger to his "vision" as I see it! If I'm wrong, however, I'm sure I'll be corrected!

And it surely could work very well with the right "mix", IMHO! Co-operation and negotiation would of course be essential, as well as an atmosphere of mutual respect. Thanks!

link to standard response to Doc personal attack

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 02-24-2002).]

doc speculates: Yes Doc, and thank you for furthering my viewpoint on this!

The point is that perhaps Randy didn't need a TalkBoard to come up with the idea!

And if he feels TalkBoard was a mistake or is too much trouble, as I say in my post above:

The idea of a "dictator" is a VERY BAD idea. I'd much rather accept the current democracy (no matter how much NJDavid bashes it - and no matter what its faults).

BTW - I feel the same about the other so called "benevolent despots" ruling some nations.

So, you believe that Randy is not solely in charge of Flyertalk? And that a body of anonymous e-mail accounts (with no verification) that elected on-line representatives into a "board" is a "democracy"?

OK. Sure. No Problem.