MB. and Oz



Thanks for your consideration,
Dan

edited to protect the innocent.



[This message has been edited by dhammer53 (edited 04-30-2001).]

1st, :P okay Doc? Feel better?
2nd, MarkBach I do believe that these folks belong to moremiles, is important. NJdavid said, "With all sincere respect, either take control of your site or shut it down. It is no longer bringing you any respect. It is a nusiance and a laughing stock." My point is... the premise of that board is that they do not like the way FT does not moderate the board. Thus they (and you) started your own to solve the problem. Now NjDavid complains about FT. It's like if you live in a neighborhood and don't like the fact that their are no restrictions. They are mad about fences and junk cars in yards. You sell your house and move to an exclusive subdivision. Now you go back to your old neighborhood and tell them they are a bunch of bums and people are laughing at them. Seems kind of elitest and hypocritical. Either be a FULL participant of FT and work for the total good of the community, Or really leave and shut up. Njdavid is not contributing any CO advice or hints currently. Maybe, he should have resisted the temptation and stayed away. He did choose to leave. It's only natural people will rag him slightly. All he's currently contributing to FT is complaining and fueling the fire. The people left in the old neighbor hood kinda got tired of Deny,deny,deny... they took at little shot. It would have died rather quickly if the non CO flyers had stayed out of it. Oh well, too late now.

cigarman: That's kind of like saying one shouldn't use Windows, or request better software from Microsoft, if one participates in the Linux open source initiatives. Sure, some Linux fans would see using Microsoft products as disloyal, but most would look at it as simply exercising alternatives - getting the best of both possible worlds.

Randy has not asked me to stop participating here. If he did, I'd certainly respect his wishes. I don't believe it's your business to run anyone out of here. In the meantime, I'm going to behave politely in his house, and continue to say that I wish others would, as I have been doing since I joined this board two years ago.

I think it is very unfortunate that you are spreading misinformation about another board here. I find it completely inappropriate to comment, though, given that it's Randy's board and Randy's forum.

dgolds .. Was there any 'misinformation" spread though?

Dgolds, what misinformation have I spread? I'd gladly edit my post to correct any errors. And I'm not trying to drive anyone out. I simply point out that he helped start a board that has a purpose to eliminate flame wars. He then comes back here and slams this board. I would prefer he give a 100% to making FT a great place, or 100% to his new place. But your windows linux anology is flawed. I as a member of the general public can access the benefits of both programs. I cannot access the other board as it is private. There is a clear difference. I'm sorry you who is a member of both don't see a problem. Some of us who aren't, feel differently. But there is no misinformation. I'm not attacking either you or anyone else. I am commenting on a percieved hypocrasy of the posts. You all did not reveal the info. I think it is interesting in light of the "laughing stock" quote. Anyway, I simply want positive, helpful contributors on the CO board. I clearly did NOT say leave (only). I said, contribute (and quite the complaining) or leave (for your special moderated board). Don't lecture me on decorum on randy's board... I notice YOU SAID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO NJDAVID IN REGARDS TO HIS DIRECT INSULT TO RANDY. Seems the rules only apply one way? I cannot imagine how anything I said in regards to moremiles has any negative toward Randy. Seems to me I'm defending FT. On the other hand, NjDavid cleary was disrespectful in the laughingstock comment. You might also notice I did not defend the other parties on the original thread either (i called them loudmouths remember). I am frustrated by that misinformation comment. I challange you to help me increase the accuracy of my posts.

[This message has been edited by cigarman (edited 05-01-2001).]

Australia has this cute law about passports. Other than British passport holders, everyone else must make a choice. No-one makes it for you, but a non Australian born resident cannot hold a USA passport and an Australian one at once. No sitting on fences. No 50/50 bets. You get to choose which country's rules and regulations suit YOU best. Our Government takes the interesting view you insult the country if you want to have a furtive foot in the door somewhere else. Works pretty well it seems and does underpin loyalty. All nothing to do with this thread of course, just thought I'd mention it in passing, and really don't why it even came to mind.

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 05-01-2001).]

I have said nothing disrespectful to Randy, and in fact made my comments to him with the utmost respect.

My contributions to other places on the internet do not mean that my status in this community nor the contributions I have made here over the years are any less meaningful that anyone elses. Cigarman, I did more to promote this board before you joined it than you will likely ever do. Just because I am contributing to help set up a friendlier community elsewhere does not mean I have forefitted my rights to be here. If Randy asks me to leave, I will.

Finally, you should be aware that your criticism's of another community are erroneous and unenlightened. You use Randy's forum to make those charges, even though the people being charged have personally e-mailed you with the real facts, and have promised Randy not to disrespect his forum with discussions about or defenses of them.

No one will challenge your assertions here, as we have promised Randy not to. You know this, and yet you still make them. It is you who insult Randy's wishes, not I.


[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 05-01-2001).]

I am an Idiot. I do not hide this fact. It is plain for anyone to see or read. I am quite simply said, a goof, so take this for what it is worth.

But there are a few things I do know, and respect is one of them. The simple fact is people are hiding behind the anonymity of the internet to disrespect each other and more importantly, disrespect our host. Would you be so brave and adversarial with someone you just met in "real life"? Why would you treat anyone differently on a BB? Why would you do it in someone else's house?

There is a line, and exactly where that line is your own personal choice. But, in my personal opinion, people are crossing that line. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, I'm relatively new here and do not know much of the history of the board. Nor to I care. But what I do know of it, I like, and would like to see it grow.

Why make unnecessary enemies? Life is way to short to hate someone you've never met. And as for having moderators on the board is like having dad standing over you and making sure you play nice? How old are we? Do we really need that? No one likes that roll. Do you think Randy wants to scold everyone who acts up? No, that's why you don't see him here. He knows that he is in a no win situation. If you can't play well with the other children, take your ball and go play somewhere else. It's that simple.

But hey, I'm just the hot dog vender and the local Idiot, just my .02(cdn)

Oh yeah, Save InnPoints�oh, wait, we already did that�

dup post

[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 05-01-2001).]

I've heard thru the grapevine that these people from the Moremiles board will be asked by Randy to leave here shortly anyway...so we only have to put up with them (and the lead clown NJDavid) for a few more days

markbach:

Ketchup? On a hot dog? Hello?

ditto what village idiot said.

Can I have mine with kraut and onions, regular coke, lots of ice.

and an ice cream sandwich...I'll start my diet tomorrow

I would be glad to address any questions of "misinformation" privately via e-mail. I personally find it inappropriate to our host to discuss issues around another board on his private forum and will not do so.

cigarman: The reason I didn't address NJDavid's comments is because they were not personal, name calling, ad hominem attacks like the ones made in the offending thread and then repeated above, such as the one in which one of the members refers to NJDavid as a "clown" and me as a "whiner" and "sanctimonious." If NJDavid had said "Randy's a clown," I would have been all over him. But NJDavid didn't personalize his remarks, or attack Randy, he
said he felt there was something wrong on the board, albeit strongly.

Now, NJDavid might not have used the same style I would have in expressing this, but he didn't get personal. In fact, he starts off by expressing respect for Randy and what he's accomplished here. I've expressed a preference for moderation here many many times over the years. Those posts could be implied as criticism to this board similar to NJDavid's remarks, and some may tire of it, but I've never been attacked for it (until now).

So what are the boundaries of civility? For instance, you and I have very different personal styles, but I've never asked that any of your posts to be moderated - you often express things strongly, but you don't engage in personal attacks and name calling. (And I respect you for that.) In fact, despite our personal differences in style, I think we've gotten along pretty well over the months on the CO board, in private e-mail, and over dinner.

All I'm asking for is for an end to name calling and personal attacks, and until I'm asked to stop doing so by the hosts of our board, I'll continue as I've done in the past.

1st- Maybe I'm wrong. It is difficult to read tone of posts. The laughingstock quote reads insulting to me. If it's not, okay i'll take your word for it. Njdavid. However, that does not change the fact that Dgolds felt that be just mentioning another board here is an insult to Randy. This moremiles "cult" is scary. How is mentioning travelocity, or expedia, or CO's website an insult to randy? Many of these travel sites have buliten boards... But for some reason mentioning Moremiles is an insult? Does this logic seem wrong to anyone else?
2nd, I never said you (Njdavid) did not make Massive contributions in the past. You clearly did. What I did say was that you stopped being a contributor and a positive force with the deny, deny,deny, campaign. This is clearly true. I never compared myself to you about Value of contributions. You made that personal. I will gladly conceed that you did much more for this board than I ever will. Maybe that's why it's frustrating that you are turning you back on FT. Quit, the mantra Moremilers..."if randy asks me to leave I will." Nobody is running a campaign trying to get you to leave. No threads are titled "go leave so and so". This is a smoke screen, a red herring. You don't seem to want to contribute anymore, then you throw up the if Randy asks me stuff. I personally want you to come back to the CO board with positive help and comments. Ironiclly, the positive comments are saved for Moremiles, and all the negative deny stuff is in FT. My point has been, be postive about CO and FT, or leave totally for the more positive board elsewhere.
3rd point. And this is the proof of what I say. You tell me people have emailed me with the facts about moremiles and told me the truth. And i'm spreading erronus facts... but you can't clear up any missconceptions, because you conviently promised Randy you would not do. Isn't that cleaver. Only your word will suffice. I can't post the emails I recieved (curious how you know about them, apparently the clique talks) because it is wrong to post other peoples email. You tell me i'm unelightened... gee hard to be "enlightened" when the veil of serecy you guys put up makes a discussion impossible. And you should know the emails I got contradict each other in several places. You tell me that I'm distrespecting Randy's wishes not to discuss this... Gee how would I know that? I can't read it on your private board... an he hasn't said anything to me! This is so incredibly stupid. I'm insulting Randy because I talked about something he doesn't want mentioned, even though he never told me...

4th I suggest you all go read a copy of Animal Farm. There is no having a discussion with you all. Everything is either secret or Randy said you can't discuss it. But you all refuse to recuse yourselves from commenting on things here. We disagree and "sorry we can't comment... we promised Randy". WOW, that's great. So basically anytime you feel like getting involved here, you can. Then if people don't like it... "sorry can't comment, it would be an insult to Randy". This is too much. What ever happened to a community here? Sure looks like the "peaceful" folks are dividing it.