Originally Posted by Chungreo (Post 24983309)

Ok so it sounds like keeping the routing but changing the timing is fine. But canceling a sector recalculated be whole surcharge and tax situation. What if the cancellations happen after the first journey has started would that make the cancellations even more costly?

Originally Posted by christep (Post 24999615)

True, but if the sectors incurring the higher YQ have already been flown they you won't be charged it retrospectively, as I understand it.

What I don't understand is why there would be any increase anyway (except the LAX transit-> stopover issue). Haven't YQs been going down pretty continuously for the last year?

Originally Posted by KACommuter (Post 25002558)

Under "Plan and Book" on the OneWorld Explorer website:

"You need to book eight days in advance of your first flight."

Is this up to date / true / enforced? I just tried a dummy itinerary with the first flight leaving in 2 days' time and I was able to plan it all out.

Originally Posted by zoombee (Post 24934433)

tl;dr version: I suspect AA are treating LHR as a stopover for pricing purposes.


Searching on ITA for a biz one-way....

MAD-xDUS-LAX on IB then AB is the following on top of the base fare:
German Passenger Service Charge (RA) $20.30
AB YQ surcharge (YQ) $191.70
+ a bunch of spain and US taxes

MAD-xHEL-xLHR-LAX on AY then AA is the following on top of the base fare:
United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) $48.70
AA YR surcharge (YR) $206.40
Finland WL (WL) $5.70
Finland Air Transport Supervision Charge (XU) $1.40
+ the same bunch of spain and US taxes.

So adding in the $100 change fee and you'd expect about $150 to change.


Wondering how how much it would be with a stop on LHR...

MAD-xHEL-LHR on AY followed by LHR-LAX on AA with a stopover in LHR would be:
Finland WL (WL) $5.70
Finland Air Transport Supervision Charge (XU) $1.40
AY YR surcharge (YR) $54.10
+
United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty (GB) $218.10
United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) $64.60
AA YR surcharge (YR) $252.60
+ the same bunch of spain and US taxes.

Which would be more like $400 + $100 which is close to your $482.

Originally Posted by KACommuter (Post 25002558)

Under "Plan and Book" on the OneWorld Explorer website:

"You need to book eight days in advance of your first flight."

Is this up to date / true / enforced? I just tried a dummy itinerary with the first flight leaving in 2 days' time and I was able to plan it all out.

Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 25003236)

Random musing.

The North America transcon rule says "Within the USA/Canada only one nonstop or single plane service transcontinental flight permitted."

There are a number of flights showing in the timetable/OW map such as YVR-DCA with a single flight number that have a tech stop/plane change in PHX (others city pairs in ORD or DFW). These flights are not nonstop or single plane...

Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 25003189)

The actual wording in the rule (5A) is:

Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 25000729)

It will be interesting to see if the long-promised autopricing of RTWs helps or hinders us :)

I suspect there will be lots and lots of YQ miscalculations—in both directions.

Originally Posted by TopGunner (Post 25003718)

Unfortunately I cannot get AA to issue a detailed receipt of charges and taxes. They say they cannot even see the details themselves. Any suggestions on how I get the fare construction details to potentially challenge the secretive ticketing desk?

Originally Posted by JohnAx (Post 25008003)

If the rules as published aren't ambiguous the software should be relatively easy to get right.

I'm not saying that will happen - it's far too difficult for entities of all types and sizes to successfully contract for (via internal IT or an external supplier) software.

Originally Posted by JohnAx (Post 25008022)

I'd guess a legal filing is the only way.

Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 25008812)

On what basis? Is there a DoT right to see the fees/taxes field of a ticket?

Originally Posted by skunker (Post 25011601)

DOT does require that taxes and carrier imposed surcharges be shown separately.

So an airline can't just say that taxes and surcharges equal $300. They have to say that taxes equal $25 and carrier imposed surcharges equal $275. Whether they need to breakdown down further on a multi-airline ticket I don't know.

The RTW tool does a pretty good job of breaking it down.

Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 25011612)

I mean, it should not be hard. The ticket will have each listed on it anyway in the fare construction field.

Originally Posted by skunker (Post 25011642)

Exactly. So, if AA is unable/unwilling to give that information then they are either lying or not following DOT regulations.

Originally Posted by TopGunner (Post 25030445)

So to continue the saga, I changed my routing to mimick my original routing and lo and behold it still doesn't add up, my refund is even less than the original upcharge. No airport taxes have changed since I bought the ticket and you cannot have a fare change in the middle of a trip. Btw, I am also accounting for the change fee.

It only leads me to one conclusion AA is full of Sh*t and they are not to be trusted on calculating anything. Also plausible AA is throwing carrier charges on anything they want. At least with BA you know the game.

Both customer relations and the EXP desk said you are on your own with the price desk, they cannot do or say anything to them. Well, Doug and Karen are about to get some nice words and DOT will have something to deal ponder.

Originally Posted by TopGunner (Post 25031016)

More details to bore you all, but maybe the experts can discern something from this information. So by looking through the various tickets issued and exchanged for my reservation via the AA refund channel I got the info below. Now keep in mind this an ex-JNB fare bought in Johannesburg and in Rand.
Is American messing with both my locked in Rand base fare deducting for each segment and then also with the base fare and taxes via exchange rate? I can understand the taxes being recalculated but the base fare should not be touched, it was locked in already. So if they keep converting the whole remaining value of the ticket base fare + charges into a lumpsum paid towards a new fare calculation I will continue owing them no matter what unless if the currency moves in my favor??

Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 25031028)

Which office issued these tickets? Was the fare quoted in USD or ZAR?

Originally Posted by TopGunner (Post 25031106)

quoted and issued in ZAR via Mindpearl in South Africa. First change done via AA RTW desk quoted USD for changes. Second change called South Africa minimal refund quoted in ZAR.

I am starting to thinking AA cannot keep the currencies straight, that I shouldn't have had AA RTW desk touch the ticket after it got issued in South Africa.

Originally Posted by danger (Post 25041820)

The Wiki says:
Does that mean that, in this example, I would use two of my 16 segments, such that LGA-JFK essentially counts as a flight?

Originally Posted by danger (Post 25041820)

The Wiki says:
Does that mean that, in this example, I would use two of my 16 segments, such that LGA-JFK essentially counts as a flight?

Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 25147185)

is there any information about how to lower YQ from USA to Europe?
AA US Finair BA IB are in a joint venture and it isnt cheap. AB is also in 4xx.

when i try to price DFW DOH MUC on QR using ITA, it gives YQ or less than 200. but YQ for DFW DOH is more

Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 25173585)

i was reading some old posts about AA ticketed DONE. it is said that aa only charges yq on its own metal, is it still true?

Originally Posted by Gardyloo (Post 25174561)

In my experience AA will pass through YQ on BA metal; for example ticketing an xONEx out of South Africa, AA will add the fuel fine to an initial BA-operated segment such as CPT-LHR even if it's booked using an AA code. I assume it has to do with the AA/BA/IB joint venture agreement.

Where AA differs on YQ is that they don't charge it for other segments operated by non-BA carriers, whereas BA does if it can. Note this is extremely difficult to document because of the cone of silence imposed by the AA (and BA) rates people. Even the AA RTW desk agents can't (and/or won't) reveal a detailed accounting of the construction of YQ/YR amounts on the ticket. They're neither published fares nor are they taxes that would require disclosure, so instead they're treated as a black box from which numbers are pulled.

Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 25174788)

basically, the price online is the highest because it applies all YQ?
interesting to know. i have priced my ticket online and by ita, i have sent it to cx to price, will see how they do the yq..

Originally Posted by Gardyloo (Post 25174561)

In my experience AA will pass through YQ on BA metal; for example ticketing an xONEx out of South Africa, AA will add the fuel fine to an initial BA-operated segment such as CPT-LHR even if it's booked using an AA code. I assume it has to do with the AA/BA/IB joint venture agreement.

Where AA differs on YQ is that they don't charge it for other segments operated by non-BA carriers, whereas BA does if it can. Note this is extremely difficult to document because of the cone of silence imposed by the AA (and BA) rates people. Even the AA RTW desk agents can't (and/or won't) reveal a detailed accounting of the construction of YQ/YR amounts on the ticket. They're neither published fares nor are they taxes that would require disclosure, so instead they're treated as a black box from which numbers are pulled.

Originally Posted by TopGunner (Post 25175024)

In addition, on my ex-JNB DONE4, AA was clearly collecting YQ on QR JNB-DOH, because I kept switching between BA JNB-LHR and the QR segment, and the price differences equated to the delta between BA and QR revenue YQs. The same thing shows when selecting different options between JFK-HKG and NRT, AA added its YQ on CX and JL segments.

Originally Posted by Gardyloo (Post 25175471)

I'm not doubting you but am curious how you managed to get a detailed accounting of which segments AA was adding YQ to, and how much. Transparency is not one of Oneworld's strong suits.

Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 25174858)

How did you price on ITA? I did not think it could support RTW fares.