What is a multiple carrier surcharge/fee? Is it something Qantas have made up (as a charge for them to have to deal with multiple carriers?) or is it various charged applied by multiple carriers and shown as a single value?

It's how they aggregate together all the various YQ and YR (aka fuel fine) surcharges

In my first investigation above:
- creating the itinerary in the online tool with CX as the first carrier
- then amongst all the various taxes and charges are these two linesIn my second investigation:
- creating the identical itinerary, but getting to the online via the Qantas web site
- the same two lines appear, and in addition this lineGo figure

So I did some more investigation yesterday. I was getting the correct base fare in two browsers, whether I visited qantas.com or straight to oneworld.com, but the other browser continued to show a base fare of AUD$5k (for the exact same itinerary, down to dates) even after closing and reopening. I finally cleared the browser cookies and cache and it started showing the normal fare - I have no idea what happened there, but I sure am glad I wasn't just going straight through to book it through qantas.

I also priced it ex-Tokyo, thanks for the tip. It came to about $100 cheaper but I think the extra trip to Australia is worth that to me :)

One more unrelated question - if I just leave the FF# blank during booking, can I add my Alaska airlines number separately for each flight through the airlines, or just claim the flights with Alaska after taking them? (They are all Alaska partners, except Qatar Airways. I'll put the Qatar miles on American but would like to get status on Alaska as my main airline).

The frequent flier number is stored in the PNR (passenger name record) which is not unique to each airline but rather unique to each booking system. So you only need to add it to each booking system. You can amend this at any time before departure.

QR and BA both use Amadeus, so they would see the same frequent flier number; AA uses Sabre so they would not see it (unless BA deliberately cross propagated to the foreign booking system, which actually they would do normally, but with so many partners on a non-standard itinerary they might not).

The difficulty is you want your QR flights credited separately. You could go around fixing it at every airport when you check in, that should work, "Is my Alaska/American frequent flier number in the booking please?", but the "safest" way would be to retroclaim every flight coupon.

yea, I think I'll go with the post-flight claims. Thanks for the tip, I didn't know about the Amadeus/Sabre shared info.

Update on DONE4 ex-JNB
 

Wanted to update my ongoing saga with AA trying to deconstruct the fuel fines. I started a new booking from scratch as follows:

JNB-QR-xDOH-QR-MAD
MAD-AB-xDUS-AB-LAX
LAX-AA-JFK
JFK-AA/CX-HKG
HKG-CX-NRT
NRT-CX-HKG
HKG-CX-JNB

This priced out at:
Fare 59,070ZAR
Tax 2,025ZAR
YQ 8,922ZAR

This was a reduction of 1,100ZAR or US$100 from flying AA TATL. The big question is AA 77W worth the $100 upgrade from AB?

I was told in multiple conversations that a computer calculates the YQ/YR therefore agents cannot give detail or breakdown of these. Is this really the case or was I being told to take it or leave it?

re-route: calculating tax change
 

I'm in the middle of an ex JNB LONE6 (*) issued by AA (mindpearl) and am trying to get it re-routed. I have the new (**) itin held pending pricing but the _increase_ taxes initially quoted seems crazy ($500).

Would love some help getting the taxes down, either because they should be lower or by knowing where the larger items are so I can quash it. E.g. the following seem useful questions:

(a) am I right that an AA issued ticket won't have any YQ for flights on: AA, AA codeshare of LAN metal flights, QF

(b) Does AA charge YQ for JL, CX and/or QR flights?

(c) Is there a decent tool to see the YQ/taxes charges for the various segments based on issuing airline and airline flown (with/without codesharing)?

(d) I put the two routes into the oneworld tool to price but then realised it's probably pricing it as BA would not as AA would. Interestingly though, those two itins do indeed differ by about $500 when priced using the tool. There's a "details" link next to the taxes quoted in the oneworld.com tool but in both firefox and chrome (on my Mac) this doesn't actually do anything. Should it?

(e) Might I be getting into trouble by saying I'm using a UK credit card and this somehow being priced out as changing the origin of the fare? AA seem very keen for me to be dealt with by Europe since i'm using a UK card.

Many thanks in advance for any help!


*: original route: JNB-MRU-LGW-IBZ-MAD-xLHR-DFW-JFK-SFO-ORD-SFO-EZE-xDFW-xNRT-SIN-SYD-JNB -- first two flights on BA, then IB for LGW-MAD-xLHR, then AA till NRT, JL for xNRT-SIN and then QF for SIN-SYD-JNB

*: provisional new route (lhr-jfk wanted for this Weds!): JNB-MRU-LGW,LHR-JFK-xMIA-SJO-xMIA-LIM-IQT-LIM-xMIA-xNRT-SYD-SIN-xDOH-JNB -- first two flights on BA, then AA for till LIM-MIA which is an AA codeshare but LAN flight, then AA to NRT,JL for xNRT-SYD, QF for SYD-SIN and QR for SIN-xDOH-JNB

That link used to work, but for some reason hasn't for a few months now

But if you go the next screen ("Proceed to Booking"), then on that screen click on Taxes and Carrier Surcharges/Fees at the bottom
There will be lines labelled "Carrier Surcharges/Fees" and "Multiple Carrier Surcharges/Fees"; sadly not broken down by sector flown

In numerous re-issues and re-routes (on tickets issued by BA and AA) I have yet to have the taxes and fees decrease on re-issue.

You can get an idea of fees by entering the segment and carrier into ITA and just ignore the base fare. For example, QR, SIN-xDOH-JNB:

They are probably just concerned that the payment will not be accepted.

Changing the sales city changes the base fare, not the taxes (by more than $500 as well I think).

Ask for as detailed a break down as they can manage to be faxed or emailed to you.

<snip>

Tnx! It's like you were reading my mind. I used ITA to look up that exact segment pair and one reason I asked if AA charges YQ for QR flights is because that would be a good candidate for the bulk of the fees.

I also just checked by pulling those two segments from the test itin I have on the oneworld tool (replacing SYD-SIN-xDOG-JNB with SYD-JNB) and the price dropped by $500. But given I assume the tool is using BA as the ticketing airline all that confirms is that there's plenty of YQ on the QR flight for _if_ AA charges it.

Still, that's my number 1 target so I'll be calling the RTW desk shortly to see if that improves things.

Update on my attempt to uncover where the extra taxes are coming from on a re-route (see post 887):

* The current number being proposed is an increase in taxes of $420. At AA's suggestion the fare is being sent to the rates desk for top to bottom checking. We'll see if that helps, else me next step will be to drop the SIN-xDOH-JNB to see if that helps.

* I had a thought and checked the taxes etc. that would be charged if I booked the various flights using AA miles. E.g. QR would not change any YQ (it's $30 to fly SIN-xDOH-JNB on miles). LHR-JFK is "only" ~$200 (so I was expecting that increase).

Question: should the taxes/fuel charges on an award ticket issued by AA match the taxes/fuel charges on an xONEx ticket issued by AA (for an identical itinerary and airlines flown of course)?

No. AA eats most of the fees and taxes (not UK APD) on award tickets, e.g. total fees for a JFK-CDG award on AA metal are $5.60. The same flight shows $284.60 in fees (YR = $258) on ITA.

Using AA miles for JFK-xLHR-CDG on BA metal carries an out-of-pocket cost of $324.60.

Does AA actually provide this or have the capacity to provide this? Would you call Mindpearl or AA RTW?

I have been jerked around a bit by the RTW when it comes to carrier charge details.

I assume Mindpearl have no more access to information than the AA agents in the RTW desk?

The calculations are done back-office within AA so potentially neither the RTW desk nor Mindpearl have access to them. Certainly the AA RTW desk claimed to have no access to the breakdown and they say they asked for a little info (I asked if they might find out how much from the SIN-xDOH-JNB part of an RTW) and weren't given an answer.

I'll have time to play around with a 2nd xONEx re-route from next week so will try at least a few 1-2 segment change variants to get a sense of the pricing difference and how that maps to ITA info across various airlines (one or more of AA/JAL/LAN/Cathay/BA/QF) and will try and summarize anything useful I can discern in a few weeks.

Swapping SYD-SIN-xDOH-JNB (QF, then QR) to SYD-JNB (QF) saved a little over $400 in taxes (on a LONEx) plus returned two segments (*). Ticketed. Cutting out the QR long haul flights was a Good Thing (tm).

*: being used to save an additional $250 on a Peru domestic side trip. So $650 saved which is enough to buy a SYD-SIN return and earn more miles whilst at it. Go figure.

One for the experts, do the Intra-Middle East flights on QR book in A or L if ticketed on a DONEx fare?

The online tool shows them in L, not sure if setting up a booking via AA would make a difference.

As noted above they should be booking in A, if there is availability. AA can do it (or at least check).

Thanks (^); I thought that was the case but the tool, while correctly booking in A for intra-US segments books in L for Intra-ME. Wasn't sure if a bug or an exception to rules.

Will be A on QR.

It's a bug. When QR first joined the exception was not there. I emailed oneworld about it and the next round of rules changes they added the exception: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/21889172-post114.html

The L bug remained and I emailed oneworld again and it was fixed, but it appears it is back. Your choices are
1) email oneworld, wait about 2 weeks, and go back and forth
2) use the online tool and book in L but change to A later
3) call AA RTW desk

Thanks skunker

Now to toss up between an ex-CAI DONE4 and an ex-JNB DONE5

There is very little difference in base fare

So, IMHO, the decision comes down to:

• whether you actually want to go to Africa
• whether the two stopovers in continent of origin will be too onerous a constraint
• which is easier to position to, and position from at the end

- No
- No
- Positioning out of BOM to either JNB/CPT or CAI would be equal of a hassle.

Starting in South Africa and finishing in NBO does allow one to eke out the maximum mileage though. Can anyone comment if the following is a valid itin? (Mileagemonkey says it is)


CPT-xLHR-MEL-xAKL-PER-SYD-xHKG-BOM-xHKG-NRT-xHKG-JFK-LAX-xLHR-xDOH-xLHR-NBO

No it isn't valid
MM has not been updated to reflect the new rules on two visits to Europe in conjunction with travel to/from Africa

And your CPT-LHR ... LHR-NBO is violating the new rules

You can get a copy of the rules on oneworld.com
The particular rule is 4(e), which in part states:
Because your two visits to Europe/Middle East are both to the Europe Zone, it falls under 3.2.1 and therefore you cannot include South Africa (or Mauritius)

Also, with regard to AKL-PER, just be aware that this is a seasonal flight - December to April I believe, and only operates twice a week (Saturday and Sunday)

Thanks pandaperth

Yeah I'm aware of the seasonality of the AKL PER service, that is purely a mileage maximizer. Back to the drawing board I go.

How about CPT-xLHR-MEL-xAKL-PER-AKL-xHKG-NRT-KUL-BOM-xHKG-JFK-LAX-DFW-DOH-CPT?

It is a legal routing (satisfies condition 3.2.3 in my above post)

Looks like it would work; but no QR F service to the U.S. for AONEx tix.

Deleted

In that case fly CPT-DOH and DFW-LHR to remove the lack of F problem?

QR operates CPT/DOH several times a week with a 788. I didn't see any F service.

Sorry for the noob question and also if I have missed the relevant link somewhere else in this thread, but where can I find current pricing by country for the various xONEx tickets? The only way I've found so far seems to be to make a dummy reservation and then price it, which is quite laborious.

That is one way. The base fares are no longer published online. Expertflyer or KVS can pull them up.

Thanks

After a quick search, it appears that CAI is one of the better (best) bets for DONE3 pricing ($5337) and JNB / CPT as far as DONE4/5 pricing goes ($5,228 and $6,021). And if looking to start from Asia, then NRT is about as good as it gets for a DONE3 ($5,713).

Are there any other good Asia based starting points I am missing?

Does the above rule apply for RTW's that start outside of Africa? I was thinking about an ex-NRT DONE3 that would have something like NRT-CDG-DOH-MAD-DOH-TXL-LAX...NRT

Those are the standard ones. Try ICN for another Asia starting point.

The rules I posted only apply if
- Africa is included in the itinerary (and it cannot be included in a xONE3)
- AND you wish to have two visits to Europe/Middle East

So the answer to your question is No, they do not apply in your case

???
NRT-CDG-DOH-MAD-DOH-TXL-JFK-NRT
is a simple valid XONE3 itinerary.
The rule about Europe/Middle East/Africa exception doesn't affect your itin.
(I could not find a TXL-LAX flight. so, replace LAX with JFK)