Originally Posted by littlevoices (Post 37649194)

Just to mention the discrepancies are getting worse and worse, or ExpertFlyer is becoming more and more unhelpful.

I was booking a fairly simple DONE3 last night and had problems with CX and JAL (less so than AA for a change).

• CX JFK-HKG: D9s across the board for a Monday flight, no go, had to go on Tuesday
• CX HKG-MAN: D2 showing, in the past CX used to block the D1 seat from DONE, but allow D2 to book. Not this time, had to route via LHR
• JAL: Were better, I was able to select a D1 flight NRT-HKG in about a week, but wasn't able to select the domestic leg that was also showing as D1 with domestic connections on EF, so wasn't a married segment issue
• However, AA were good, was able to book: LHR-DFW (new B78P), DFW-LAX, LAX-JFK (new A32Q/321XLR) within a 24 hour period with no married segment issues.

Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 37648119)

The lower 'D' availability could be because of married segments or a point of sale restriction or a type of fare restriction or a point of origin restriction. You can check for married segment inventory in EF by doing a flight availability query using the connection point. You can use EF's point of sale control to see if the availability is different for different points of sale. The past few years I've seen a lot of 'D' (and 'A') inventory restrictions for xONEx fares. In those cases you should at least be put on the waitlist.

Originally Posted by ernestnywang (Post 37648909)

I tried playing around a bit and it seems seat selection on AS*/JL (meaning marketed by AS and operated by JL) flights indeed may not be easy or even possible. Sorry, I didn't realise that. Seat map cannot be opened on GDS even when the query is directly made to AS. I don't want to create a live booking to test, but if you know a particular seat is free on the JL flight, it's worth trying if SSR (Special Service Request) code might work. On Sabre, it will be "4G<segment number>/<seat number>" or "3RQST<segment number>/<seat number>." If your TA uses another GDS, there will be corresponding codes, too. I will try the first one first, and if it fails, the second one then, but it's possible neither will be accepted. In this case, even an AS agent cannot help. Only a JL agent maybe can, though against their internal policy (but maybe LAX ones will help based on above?), or if you can access the PNR from another oneworld airline that uses Amadeus to select JL seats, but I don't know if there are anyone that still allows that..

Originally Posted by A1pax (Post 37649551)

Thank you again, ernestnywang for persisting with my question re seat selection on AS codeshare flight with JL. My OTH said I should stop wasting time as it is only 4 hours flight so we should just accept the assigned seats - still better sitting in the back of the bus! However, I am not a defeatist, and will contact the TA - hinting to him what you have suggested, ie trying if SSR code might work. He may think I am too demanding and tell me to go away. I can see the seats originally selected by the TA (before I changed the 2 flight dates) are still available on EF map.

Originally Posted by donotblink (Post 37649360)

which carrier did you book through? Does it make a difference for availability?

Originally Posted by littlevoices (Post 37653540)

I could have been clearer, this was with the AA RTW desk like all my RTWs after prior issues with CX and QF booking via the online tool. I feel that JAL and AA really don't get on for availability, but I'm not willing to book via JAL, or use a travel agent so I'm a bit stuck with this. I just like the flexibility of AA and their deep knowledge of the fare rules. This has removed my willingness to book AONEx tickets though.

Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 37653953)

From what I can tell, it seems that both AA and JL honor GDS type of fare restrictions, that is, if the operating carrier has restricted 'A' or 'D' or 'L' availability based on xONEx fare, both AA and JL will see the unavailability.

Originally Posted by ernestnywang (Post 37654845)

A segment is first booked before it can possibly be attached to a ticket, and only the ticket has a fare basis. Technology is evolving, and maybe there are things I don't know, but it doesn't make sense to me how such restriction can be put in place. You create the PNR first before pricing it as xONEx or something else. How can the computer know which fare you will price the PNR in advance at the availability display stage. There are also cases (though very rare I imagine) where people change an xONEx to a regular round-trip or one-way itinerary or vice versa.

I believe it's all just a combination of Married Segment Control (MSC), Point of Sale (PoS), and Point of Commencement (PoC).

Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 37656623)

Excellent questions, which unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to answer. When I've booked RTWs, the booking agent sets it up as an RTW. The AA RTW desk first puts in some basic information which identifies it as a RTW fare. JL agents take a lot of information down by hand first, then create the record. (I can't recall the process when QR or MH booked them.) It's possible that in some cases the airline has a front-end that establishes the type of fare first, and in others the segments would initially show confirmed but after type of fare is established they'd come back unconfirmed. I'd be very interested in knowing more about the process.

Originally Posted by Dr. HFH (Post 37657050)

Are A, D, and L fares used for anything else by OneWorld carriers?

Originally Posted by Dr. HFH (Post 37657050)

Are A, D, and L fares used for anything else by OneWorld carriers?

Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 37656623)

When I've booked RTWs, the booking agent sets it up as an RTW. The AA RTW desk first puts in some basic information which identifies it as a RTW fare. JL agents take a lot of information down by hand first, then create the record.

Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 37656623)

... the segments would initially show confirmed but after type of fare is established they'd come back unconfirmed.

Originally Posted by link2 (Post 37657336)

Me too. I've had something similar to what you describe happen when trying to change a JL flight. The AA RTW desk could see availability for the new flight (including within my existing PNR) but it always came back unconfirmed once they tried to actually book it. Of course, getting the flight confirmed outside of the existing DONE booking was no issue at all. (it was definitely not a married segment issue) They even tried calling JL (I think via the oneworld liaison desk) who refused to release it for a DONE, so I think the fare basis does matter for availability nowadays.

I've heard from the BA forum that availability for changes/existing bookings can differ from what you see for a new booking too. Honestly I feel like it's getting harder and harder to know what's actually available to you!

Originally Posted by ernestnywang (Post 37657935)

I definitely understand you are report your true observations. I don't doubt that. However, I am not convinced the reasons are what you believe to be.



I would have done the same simply because, once the segments are booked, you only have a limited time to save the PNR. In Sabre, the status code is first Sell Segment (SS), then one has to End Transaction (ET) before SS gets changed to Holding Confirmed (HK) during the initial creation of the PNR. Amadeus behaves similarly though use DK instead of SS. If anyone attempts to enter most of the information only after the segments are booked, one risks losing the SS status of the segments booked. I don't believe anything is entered at the "fare" level during the initial creation of the PNR, except an "OSI YY OW RTW" or similar line to indicate that all airlines should set the Ticket Time Limit (TKTL) consistent with the xONEx rules. The AA RTW desk creates the PNR and then sends it to the Tariff Desk for pricing after. If the "OSI YY OW RTW" can result in change in availability display (I highly doubt), one can simply just enter that single line after all the segments are booked. If there are airline internal policies that say any agent booking RTW needs to enter such line first or otherwise enter information that tells the availability display system that this is an RTW, or that the AA RTW desk sees more limited availability because of Point of Sale (PoS) restruction, wouldn't the airlines give TAs more of an advantage for seeing expanded availability?



I really don't think so. You can lose a confirmed segment if you didn't save (ET) the PNR in time, but once the status code has changed to HK, you don't lose it after merely pricing it. You only lose an HK segment if you didn't issue the ticket before TKTL or if the flight itself got cancelled or down-gauged.



There can sometimes be availability discrepancies, though your cases sound to me like the initial availability display did not correctly reflect the Point of Commencement (PoC).

Can we possibly see if JAXBA has any comments? Maybe a new technology is being implemented that I do not know of?