BearX220

No kidding. What else did you expect? The best? Considering what customers put up with already, what possible incentive could DL have for being the best?

Well, who thought there would be? Merger rationales put forward before the fact are always fraudulent. They always talk about the benefits to the consumer, the increased competition, the improved choices, and then nothing but terrible things happen. I was shocked at how many FTers believed the same old tripe about this merger. Now terrible things are happening, on a perfectly predictable timetable, and look at all this hang-wringing. Well, I told you so.

Umm... you believed that? You probably also believe MEM and CVG will still be hubs in 2010. Remember, the loyalty program doesn't have to be the best. It simply can't be the worst. All they have to do is remain one notch above TrueBlue.

Same here. Current balance: 299. I burned almost everything this fall on 2009 family travel and just spent the last few thousand on custom luggage tags. I'm out. End of an era. With this fee structure and scant availiability, there's virtually no point in redeeming miles at all. So the inevitable crash is here: the currency has become worthless.

indufan

They definitely would if they thought they could. I have brought this issue up a couple of years ago. Personally, I wouldn't do my job if it weren't for some of the perks but if a salesman is selling a multimillion dollar sale, he won't care if he is getting FF miles or not.

Mass defections because of one market? Why aren't their mass defections from markets that WN does serve? Of course, one could argue there are and have been but for the most part those legacy airlines never had those customers to begin with. One would assume that WN doesn't fly from GRB because they don't think it would be profitable.

Actually WNs biggest success has been their fuel hedging. The luck is bound to run out...and probably already has somewhat. They are also getting a lot more age on some of their airplanes which is a probably they have never had before. They have a simpler system, I will give them that. They pay some of their employees less and still make them happy to work for them.

n7371f

Frontier removed a lot of their fees the other week when they rolled out their Air Fairs...you should go check out their letter where they apologize for having to put fees on awards in the first place but basically the company's future was on the line.

psychtobe

you give them too much credit. The fact is, airlines have en masse lost money since the industry began more than 100 years ago. 9/11 is just the most recent loss stimulus, but airline management has traditionally been inept. Given that reality, I could argue that everything the airlines think they know about running a business, keeping their customers AND shareholders happy, and turning a profit, is frankly wrong and they should all be taken out back to the woodshed. They have proven their incompetence by running literally dozens of airlines into BK and oblivion; they don't deserve any more leniency, consideration, or benefit of the doubt.

The only airline which has been consistently profitable over time is WN. They are quite a different animal in many respects, and an apples to apples comparison is not possible; but at least ONE of the things they do differently right now is not nickel-and-dime their customers. For me, in 2009, given what DL/NW is doing, that is enough.

eddielam

DL/NW is really making all the loyal customers disappointed this time. I, personally, wouldn't want to fly NW/DL anymore. I usually do mileage runs once a month. But I dont' see the point anymore sad. but it's reality..

nichelle

I haven't been NW Platinum in years now. I'm currently a lowly silver. I'm the customer who still has a fair amount of banked miles because I save them for emergencies. Being in MSP with elderly parents who live elsewhere, a last minute ticket that doesn't cost a fortune has been nearly impossible to find. Even with the new charges, it would still be less than I would spend otherwise.

My saving grace? Now that WN is coming to town I have options! I'll be exploring them in 2009. I'm pretty sure I would fly enough to hit gold in 2009. But, I will be splitting those miles between NW and WN now.

Stripe

To put this in perspective, see what DL/NW's competitors charge to redeem awards:

CO - $75 if within 21 days. Even platinums pay a (reduced) fee within 14 days. $150 for changes and redeposits. Platinums exempt.

AA - $50 if 20 - 7 days before departure, $100 if 6 days or less. $20 call center fee. EXPs exempted. $150 for changes and redeposits. No elite exemptions.

UA - $75 if 20 - 7 days before departure, $100 if 6 days or less. $25 call center fee. $150 for most changes and redeposits. 1K's exempt from all fees.

AS - No award booking fees. $75-100 change and redeposit fee. MVP Golds exempt.

US - $25-50 fee to redeem any award ("award processing fee"). No exemptions. $50-75 "quick ticketing" fee if within 14 days. $30 call center fee. $150-250 change and redeposit fee. CP's exempt from quick ticketing, call center and change fees.

BA - No award booking fees for US-based customers. $20 call center fee. $70 for changes and redeposits. Not sure about elite exemptions.

WN - No fees.

Obviously NW/DL's new fee structure is similar to other major US-based carriers' although they have leaped "ahead" of most of the competition in the dollar amounts. Be thankful we're not US. Why they even maintain a loyalty program is beyond me.

And be thankful if you're a NW plat. We still have a pretty good deal.

FlytheTail

to DL. Sinking to yet another low. It really hurts to see NW being led by such idiots in the loyalty program department.


OT, but:

Hmmm, if this was the case, then why did NW and DL (and of course other airlines) file for bankruptcy earlier this decade, while sitting on billions in cash? They royally screwed the shareholders (including myself), rendering their stock worth pennies. Certainly this was not done for the shareholders, so why would they start now? Many airline corporates haven't given a rat's ... for shareholders for years now.

cornfedcowboy

You got that right! DEN,DAL to name a couple

pragakhan

What happens at the 3 day mark that requires a $150 fee that doesn't happen at the 21 day mark? What transpires when you redeposit miles that require 50 more dollars then it did a month ago? All seems artificial to me.

Regardless of who does it, NWA didn't a month ago and whether they would had or not without the merger, I guess no one can say for sure.

It is just coincidental that A) we knew the merger would suck and B) it is the suck.

NW scoop

Hello FlyerTalkers,

It is times like this when I appreciate the FlyerTalk forum the most. While we get feedback from our Reservations offices, it is never as detailed as what I get from the FlyerTalkers. Please be assured that we are reading every post.

A couple of notes about the changes made to synchronize with SkyMiles are below. My comments are not made to convince you to like all items, but hopefully they will at least give you some insight into the reason behind their implementation.

Rapid Redemption Fees: As many of you have guessed, the purpose of these fees is not really to generate revenue, but to avoid last minute business travel dilution/displacement (from award travel). The fees are 100% avoidable, provided that you buy your tickets in advance.

Change/redeposit Fees: The purpose of this fee is to keep people from wasting scarce seats. Booking multiple versions of the same trip and canceling back (often cancelling after the flights have departed) wastes tens of thousands of seats per year. In an era when seats are scarce and valuable, this takes an award seat away from someone else in the program. Note that our fees are still lower than many of the competitors.

3-tier award structure. I know this has been a controversial item, however, to be clear: We are NOT changing the amount of PerkSaver access. The 3-tier award structure gives customers an incentive to move from the most peak flights when using PerkPass. Our test of the program and DL's actual use show award travel increases, average miles used per award ticket declines, and people tend to not take the last seat on peak flights (more revenue for the airline). I understand your skepticism, but it really is a win-win, especially for domestic award travel.

Lastly, I'll note that there is lots of good news out there too. We kept our segment qualification, we're implementing comp international upgrades in the elite kits, we've kept the 500 mile minimum, and there is more good news on the way. For example, look for WorldPerks to move to a much more generous (DL-like) million mile program.

We'll work to keep you informed, and keep watching your posts for feedback. Thanks to all of you. Best regards.

Bob Soukup
Managing Director -- WorldPerks

pragakhan

Yikes.

redtailshark

Bob, Scoopy, thanks for the update.

Please see my Open Letter to R.A and E.B. on the DL board for more of my comments:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...nwa-elite.html

About those using awards to substitute for high-rev business travel, I wonder if there is no other method of defending this revenue other than the bad DL idea of stepped fees? Often, we redtail riders change our award itins for vac because seats open up within these windows. If the fee structure is too onerous and it effectively kills award vac travel, you'll find it will also kill membership incentive and render the FFP useless.

asnovici

Touche.


I am looking at AA closer and closer every day.

Stripe

That's new info! Will they be DL-style PMUs? When will we see the details?

BTW, thanks very much for the response.