TOPIC: Strike as a General Issue >> Your Thoughts
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:22 am
#316
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Only Delta Silver I'm trying to stay at home more :) Hilton Diamond, Starwood Gold
Posts: 274
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:23 am
#317
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AA EXP, HHonors
Posts: 642
Originally Posted by wldtrvlr
It is good to see that some of the NW employees would like to keep their jobs and still have a company to work for.
Thank you for voting NO and for flying. It appears that the FA's are a bit smarter and/or have a better leader than the mechanics.
Thank you for voting NO and for flying. It appears that the FA's are a bit smarter and/or have a better leader than the mechanics.
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:28 am
#318
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: heartland
Programs: WP Silver, Priority Club Gold
Posts: 55
DTW is going to see some delays due to thunderstorms earlier.
I spoke to a friend from MSP and they said everything is running as good if not better than expected....throughout the system!
I spoke to a friend from MSP and they said everything is running as good if not better than expected....throughout the system!
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:30 am
#319
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AA EXP, HHonors
Posts: 642
Bye Bye NWA
And bye bye to my NW status, because I won't be able to make it this year. I won't cross a picket line. And frankly, shame on the NW FA's and pilots for doing so. 
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:31 am
#320
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canton, Michigan, USA
Programs: DL Plat, 2 Million Miler, HH Gold, Marriott Gold, Starwood
Posts: 120
It may be that the AMFA is the problem....
Originally Posted by StSebastian
There's a lot more work involved than just doing line checks. Just an "oil change & lube" alone will take several people an entire shift or two to complete. Overhaul work would pull more people off for even longer periods of time -- it's not a trivial task to do a D check on a widebody plane taking everything apart and putting it back together.
Plus, 1500 total people does not mean they're all working all at the same time for every hour in the week. If each of them is working a 40 hour week and there are 168 hours in the week, then that's 23% of them working at any given time, or 381 mechanics available systemwide on an average basis. With the number of little things that have to be done to repair planes, that's not all that many. Including that these are also the ground crew that run the tugs and other ground equipment as well as the aircraft cleaners, that's really not many people left to fix anything. Marginally normal operations might be able to be maintained, but anything irregular will likely cause it to fall to pieces.
There aren't really any spare aircraft to put in service when something fails (see the 747-200 recently parked on 6L at GUM) and there aren't the maintenance resources to fix planes to prevent them from going out of service, so I think we're going to see targeted cancellations and the majority of service maintained at least for the first few days. Beyond that is anyone's guess, but the stock market seems to be hedging their bets.
Back in 2001 at the last contract agreement, there were 9,300 active members of AMFA for NW. Today less than half of those are left to go on strike because they were asked to reduce by yet another half. I see the ultimate target as pushing out the AMFA represented positions from the NWA company structure and outsourcing that to either one of the Airlink carriers or whatever external private company can do that as low-bid. Whether that's ultimately good or bad I'm not sure, but I think that having experienced, knowledgeable, and specialized employees within a company that are dedicated to the company doing well at all levels is generally (but not always) preferable to trying to work with an outside vendor.
As for pay, the approved 2001 contract is right on AMFA's site. Someone working 40 hours a week as a Technician would make $28/hr for $58,240/yr (slightly more for A&P licenses). While I don't know if there's been any change since then, the likelyhood it has increased is quite small and much more likely that it has since been cut. There's not really any bonus for seniority in the pay scale, so the technicians left that have 20 years' seniority are paid at that same rate. That's not all that much for the experience that these people have in doing the work and getting it done well compared to a number of other industries.
Plus, 1500 total people does not mean they're all working all at the same time for every hour in the week. If each of them is working a 40 hour week and there are 168 hours in the week, then that's 23% of them working at any given time, or 381 mechanics available systemwide on an average basis. With the number of little things that have to be done to repair planes, that's not all that many. Including that these are also the ground crew that run the tugs and other ground equipment as well as the aircraft cleaners, that's really not many people left to fix anything. Marginally normal operations might be able to be maintained, but anything irregular will likely cause it to fall to pieces.
There aren't really any spare aircraft to put in service when something fails (see the 747-200 recently parked on 6L at GUM) and there aren't the maintenance resources to fix planes to prevent them from going out of service, so I think we're going to see targeted cancellations and the majority of service maintained at least for the first few days. Beyond that is anyone's guess, but the stock market seems to be hedging their bets.
Back in 2001 at the last contract agreement, there were 9,300 active members of AMFA for NW. Today less than half of those are left to go on strike because they were asked to reduce by yet another half. I see the ultimate target as pushing out the AMFA represented positions from the NWA company structure and outsourcing that to either one of the Airlink carriers or whatever external private company can do that as low-bid. Whether that's ultimately good or bad I'm not sure, but I think that having experienced, knowledgeable, and specialized employees within a company that are dedicated to the company doing well at all levels is generally (but not always) preferable to trying to work with an outside vendor.
As for pay, the approved 2001 contract is right on AMFA's site. Someone working 40 hours a week as a Technician would make $28/hr for $58,240/yr (slightly more for A&P licenses). While I don't know if there's been any change since then, the likelyhood it has increased is quite small and much more likely that it has since been cut. There's not really any bonus for seniority in the pay scale, so the technicians left that have 20 years' seniority are paid at that same rate. That's not all that much for the experience that these people have in doing the work and getting it done well compared to a number of other industries.
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:32 am
#321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MSY
Programs: NW Gold and now Delta Gold
Posts: 3,072
DTW strike news thread
I see an MSP thread already. Maybe a DTW thread would be good as well.
My husband's flight, 1476, MSY to DTW, is cancelled on Sunday, Aug. 21. They have rebooked him through MEM.
My husband's flight, 1476, MSY to DTW, is cancelled on Sunday, Aug. 21. They have rebooked him through MEM.
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:35 am
#322
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 934
What would you do??
Replied instead of edit . . . sorry
Last edited by mjcasta; Aug 20, 2005 at 9:33 am
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:36 am
#323
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 934
What would you do???
Reagrdless of your position on the strike . . .
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
What would you do??
a. Your job asks your office of 100 people to vote on eliminating the positions of half your co-workers. Keep in mind that your office used to have 200 workers and half have already been eliminated . . . .
b. You are comfortable that you may survive the purge; but, will need to expect a paycheck which is 30% less than it was last week.
c. You will now need to make a 60% larger contribution to your insurance policies which further reduces your net pay.
d. Keep in mind that you have over 20 years of service to your company for this part . . . Your traditional pension will be eliminated and you will now be placed into a defined pension and/or 401K program. The average loss of value is around 40% and you will now need to contribute at least 15% of your pay to the 401K as retirement is around the corner.
e. You will now need to further commmute to work as stations and positions will be eliminated through base closing and consolidation. At what point does relocating your family or becoming a stranger to your kids become just not worth it.
When you add it up, the actual loss in net pay is around 45-55%.
Sooooo, what would you do????
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
What would you do??
a. Your job asks your office of 100 people to vote on eliminating the positions of half your co-workers. Keep in mind that your office used to have 200 workers and half have already been eliminated . . . .
b. You are comfortable that you may survive the purge; but, will need to expect a paycheck which is 30% less than it was last week.
c. You will now need to make a 60% larger contribution to your insurance policies which further reduces your net pay.
d. Keep in mind that you have over 20 years of service to your company for this part . . . Your traditional pension will be eliminated and you will now be placed into a defined pension and/or 401K program. The average loss of value is around 40% and you will now need to contribute at least 15% of your pay to the 401K as retirement is around the corner.
e. You will now need to further commmute to work as stations and positions will be eliminated through base closing and consolidation. At what point does relocating your family or becoming a stranger to your kids become just not worth it.
When you add it up, the actual loss in net pay is around 45-55%.
Sooooo, what would you do????
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:38 am
#324
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: IAD
Programs: Chase Million Miler, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 2,729
Two more "quicktakes" from me.
I've seen *so* many "average" salary figures tossed around (various threads and other forums) for different aviation careers or jobs. If there's one thing I can say about the things I do know, is that the "average" numbers tossed around tell very little about the "big picture" and simplify things way to much to derive any real meaning or discussion from them.
Second, as far as scabs, the technical term for those who seek employment by taking a union man's job, go, if it wasn't for them, NW would either have to settle with the mechanics or go out of business. Part of the union's job is to, um, discourage replacement workers from taking a union man's job.
I've seen *so* many "average" salary figures tossed around (various threads and other forums) for different aviation careers or jobs. If there's one thing I can say about the things I do know, is that the "average" numbers tossed around tell very little about the "big picture" and simplify things way to much to derive any real meaning or discussion from them.
Second, as far as scabs, the technical term for those who seek employment by taking a union man's job, go, if it wasn't for them, NW would either have to settle with the mechanics or go out of business. Part of the union's job is to, um, discourage replacement workers from taking a union man's job.
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:40 am
#325
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 934
What would you do???
Reagrdless of your position on the strike . . .
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
What would you do??
a. Your job asks your office of 100 people to vote on eliminating the positions of half your co-workers. Keep in mind that your office used to have 200 workers and half have already been eliminated . . . .
b. You are comfortable that you may survive the purge; but, will need to expect a paycheck which is 30% less than it was last week.
c. You will now need to make a 60% larger contribution to your insurance policies which further reduces your net pay.
d. Keep in mind that you have over 20 years of service to your company for this part . . . Your traditional pension will be eliminated and you will now be placed into a defined pension and/or 401K program. The average loss of value is around 40% and you will now need to contribute at least 15% of your pay to the 401K as retirement is around the corner.
e. You will now need to further commmute to work as stations and positions will be eliminated through base closing and consolidation. At what point does relocating your family or becoming a stranger to your kids become just not worth it.
When you add it up, the actual loss in net pay is around 45-55%.
Finally, unless you have over 18 years of seniority, a vote to accept the NWA contract terms means you have accepted a vote to end your job.
Sooooo, what would you do????
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
What would you do??
a. Your job asks your office of 100 people to vote on eliminating the positions of half your co-workers. Keep in mind that your office used to have 200 workers and half have already been eliminated . . . .
b. You are comfortable that you may survive the purge; but, will need to expect a paycheck which is 30% less than it was last week.
c. You will now need to make a 60% larger contribution to your insurance policies which further reduces your net pay.
d. Keep in mind that you have over 20 years of service to your company for this part . . . Your traditional pension will be eliminated and you will now be placed into a defined pension and/or 401K program. The average loss of value is around 40% and you will now need to contribute at least 15% of your pay to the 401K as retirement is around the corner.
e. You will now need to further commmute to work as stations and positions will be eliminated through base closing and consolidation. At what point does relocating your family or becoming a stranger to your kids become just not worth it.
When you add it up, the actual loss in net pay is around 45-55%.
Finally, unless you have over 18 years of seniority, a vote to accept the NWA contract terms means you have accepted a vote to end your job.
Sooooo, what would you do????
Last edited by mjcasta; Aug 20, 2005 at 10:28 am
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:41 am
#326
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: IAD
Programs: Chase Million Miler, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 2,729
Originally Posted by Poopdeck90210
and up to a maximum of 26 weeks of severance payments for laid-off workers[/B]
Wow! This severance offering is as good as management normally gets in corporate america.
^
-Alan
Wow! This severance offering is as good as management normally gets in corporate america.
^ -Alan
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:43 am
#327
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 934
Wages
Originally Posted by yogimax
You seem to be enamored with the low cost airlines. Please compare their salary schedules with those of NW. You complain that NW is not paying a "fair wage." Is $50,000 a year for a custodian or cleaner a fair wage?
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:44 am
#328
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AUS
Programs: DL PM 2MM HH LTD
Posts: 1,857
I would go find another job.
No one is forcing the mechanics to stay at NWA. They are free to work for whomever they want.
Marc
No one is forcing the mechanics to stay at NWA. They are free to work for whomever they want.
Marc
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:44 am
#329
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Land of 10,000 Upgrades
Posts: 9,459
What would you do???
Aug 20, 2005 | 8:46 am
#330
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Astoria, NY: LGA, JFK
Programs: Delta PM; Sheraton's Vistana BOD; SPG Gold
Posts: 2,036
Originally Posted by mjcasta
Reagrdless of your position on the strike . . .
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
?
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
?