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-   -   Denmark reopening (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/nordic-region/2038699-denmark-reopening.html)

nacho Jan 27, 2022 9:40 am


Originally Posted by vanillabean (Post 33940137)
På tirsdag kan vi smide mundbindet og coronapasset
https://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/su...g-coronapasset

So she appeared to dismiss being infected as anything to consider.

Yes if you have no intention to travel. Think about it: I had my 3rd jab in December and my coronapas will run out in 180 days(?) and other countries require that I have to show that I have been vaccinated and the pas doesn't work - I'm screwed.


Originally Posted by TomMM (Post 33940392)
These are interesting positions to take. Denmark seems to believe that as long as their healthcare system isn’t overwhelmed everything is okay.

Someone got to be the risk taker to open the society to show that it's ok - now most people are vaccinated (at least in DK) and people I know who are infected said it's like a bad flu - fever, sore throat - things that you normally won't go to hospital or doctor.

GUWonder Jan 27, 2022 9:46 am


Originally Posted by WilcoRoger (Post 33940313)
While in Finland we're not so ahead as Denmark is, the municipal authorities of the capital region already say "If you have no symptoms, you may go to work even if infected. If you have symptoms, just stay home" and there're no "official" (read: free) tests even if you test positive at home. Just another flu, the general thinking goes.

More and more of Europe seems to be coming to terms with “we will have to live with it” and are moving in the direction of “let it rip” now that so many are vaccinated and hospitals seem to be sort of managing anyway.

the810 Jan 27, 2022 11:44 am


Originally Posted by TomMM (Post 33940392)
These are interesting positions to take. Denmark seems to believe that as long as their healthcare system isn’t overwhelmed everything is okay.

Well, that was the idea from the very beginning. Does anyone believe that some people will never be infected by covid? Of course they will. We all get influenza every now and then and covid is far more infectious. The goal was never to prevent people from getting infected, but to distribute those infections over longer period of time, so the health care can cope. As Danish healthcare performs well under omicron, there's no longer any need to slow down the spread.

Anyone who still thinks we can stop covid is simply delusional.

the810 Jan 27, 2022 11:46 am


Originally Posted by vanillabean (Post 33940137)
På tirsdag kan vi smide mundbindet og coronapasset
https://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/su...g-coronapasset



So she appeared to dismiss being infected as anything to consider.

Of course. How does a positive test affect anyone? What matters is how many people are ill. Actually, what matters is how many people are seriously ill. And that number is pretty low right now.

TomMM Jan 27, 2022 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by the810 (Post 33940799)
Of course. How does a positive test affect anyone? What matters is how many people are ill. Actually, what matters is how many people are seriously ill. And that number is pretty low right now.

A covid positive person not feeling ill transmits covid to another person who gets seriously ill.

GUWonder Jan 28, 2022 1:52 am

What matters is how many people are infectious, as more infections include more risk for and from illness. It’s why we have had these cycles of “closing” and “opening” going on repeatedly in Denmark and even in Sweden.

the810 Jan 28, 2022 2:49 am


Originally Posted by TomMM (Post 33941089)
A covid positive person not feeling ill transmits covid to another person who gets seriously ill.

With the spread of omicron, that other person is going to get infected at some point anyway. As I wrote above, getting covid is not matter of "if" but a matter of "when". As long as the health care is coping, there is no reason to push the epidemic in front of us.

nacho Jan 28, 2022 3:59 am


Originally Posted by TomMM (Post 33941089)
A covid positive person not feeling ill transmits covid to another person who gets seriously ill.

Yes, it is true, but it's a lot less likely than someone who has symptoms, since the virus is airborne that a positive Covid person needs to sneeze/cough/yell loud/sing loud to get the virus to fly far enough to get to another person. Or that person has to drill his nostrils or lick his hands and smearing them allover to get the virus to spread. I preferred closing society before we had the vaccine, now that most people had 3 jabs, only the most vulnerable would get hit hard. Again the question here is: should a society take care of 2% of the population or 98% of the population (I'm talking about a high vaccination rate country)?

I think the horror scene we saw in 2020 Italy should not be seen now, and it seems that most people are getting rather mild symptoms. At least in DK, if they do go down with Covid, there are respirators readily available (not like Sweden). There are a lot of people ill in DK at the moment (my kids said a lot of teachers are on sick leave and one day my older one was let go early because they can't find a sub for them).

GUWonder Jan 28, 2022 5:05 am

An infected person’s normal breathing leaves a plume of the virus in the air even absent coughing, sneezing, breathing heavily. And since fresh air circulation in so many buildings in Scandinavia is rather weak, the concentration can build up a lot even when it’s infectious “asymptomatic” types passing by. And that hits people who come by the virus “plume” even when those going by the plume observe no sneezing, coughing, panting.

nacho Jan 28, 2022 9:16 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 33942673)
An infected person’s normal breathing leaves a plume of the virus in the air even absent coughing, sneezing, breathing heavily. And since fresh air circulation in so many buildings in Scandinavia is rather weak, the concentration can build up a lot even when it’s infectious “asymptomatic” types passing by. And that hits people who come by the virus “plume” even when those going by the plume observe no sneezing, coughing, panting.

True. But this also applies to flu and cold too. There are also people who are died from flu and do we shut down the society every winter? That's why the risk group gets free flu shots every year. As long as I don't see doctors crying for help because they can't handle the number of patients or seeing people with a balloon on their head in Italy in 2020 (as they ran out of respirators) or ordering palliative care for covid positive elderly people who has symptoms, I don't see why we need restrictions (perhaps make sure the risk groups are properly protected).

vanillabean Jan 28, 2022 9:29 am


Originally Posted by nacho (Post 33943272)
True. But this also applies to flu and cold too. There are also people who are died from flu and do we shut down the society every winter? That's why the risk group gets free flu shots every year.

Except good health and natural immunity work better for the flu than for Covid?

nacho Jan 28, 2022 9:46 am


Originally Posted by vanillabean (Post 33943317)
Except good health and natural immunity work better for the flu than for Covid?

Vaccination? That's why I don't agree with the Swedish strategy in 2020 when there was NO vaccine and they blindly went after herd immunity and saying that by June 2020 they would have herd immunity (the guy repeated a few times since and he was quiet :D ) and then some doctors tested people in an area of Stockholm and found very few people have antibody against Covid.

GUWonder Jan 28, 2022 2:03 pm


Originally Posted by nacho (Post 33943375)
Vaccination? That's why I don't agree with the Swedish strategy in 2020 when there was NO vaccine and they blindly went after herd immunity and saying that by June 2020 they would have herd immunity (the guy repeated a few times since and he was quiet :D ) and then some doctors tested people in an area of Stockholm and found very few people have antibody against Covid.

“Long cold” doesn’t really add to government/taxpayer costs? Well, except perhaps during the pandemic. “Long Covid” is a completely different story, even for those hit by Omicron and then ending up with “long Covid”.

Measuring antibody levels for a pathogen is an arguably poor measure to determine a population’s resilience in the face of a given pathogen. B and T cells have a huge part to play in how well a person — and population do — when encountering a pathogen, and so antibody levels may not tell the whole story. But these “immunity” level things are no simple thing to measure reliably across large populations when it comes to a virus, which is why I was always rolling my eyes when JG and AT were saying what they were saying in 2020 (but not only in 2020).

People who managed to avoid the flu and colds in Denmark and Sweden during this pandemic don’t seem to have managed as well to avoid Covid-19. Seems to me that Covid-19 may be more communicable than colds and the flu during this pandemic.

nacho Jan 29, 2022 7:18 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 33944160)
“Long cold” doesn’t really add to government/taxpayer costs? Well, except perhaps during the pandemic. “Long Covid” is a completely different story, even for those hit by Omicron and then ending up with “long Covid”.

Measuring antibody levels for a pathogen is an arguably poor measure to determine a population’s resilience in the face of a given pathogen. B and T cells have a huge part to play in how well a person — and population do — when encountering a pathogen, and so antibody levels may not tell the whole story. But these “immunity” level things are no simple thing to measure reliably across large populations when it comes to a virus, which is why I was always rolling my eyes when JG and AT were saying what they were saying in 2020 (but not only in 2020).

People who managed to avoid the flu and colds in Denmark and Sweden during this pandemic don’t seem to have managed as well to avoid Covid-19. Seems to me that Covid-19 may be more communicable than colds and the flu during this pandemic.

Long covid doesn't give you any compensation, I heard of some people having long Covid - but closing up and having restrictions is just delaying the process and Omicron is really hitting Australia hard: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...es-2022-01-18/

You may blame that on vaccination but a friend of mine said most only had 2 jabs in Canada.

I got a bad lung after a bad pneumonia and after a cough I sneeze immediately, this things happen so should the healthcare gives me super priority when I had that flu? I don't think the attitude towards flu/cold would change after this either.

A co-worker of Mr's had both Covid and a flu/cold at the same time, not that we have been having symptoms and we all tested negative. We don't get a test to see if we have a flu/cold (at least not in DK/SE), if you hear the coughing and sneezing, doesn't mean they have Covid.

Let's see if I'm still alive by the end of February :D

vanillabean Jan 29, 2022 8:08 am


From 1 February 2022, the following entry limits apply to Denmark:

-All persons from all over the world with a valid evidence of vaccination with a recognized vaccine or former infection may enter Denmark without being greeted by Covid-19 entry limits.

-People who enter the EU and Schengen without valid evidence of vaccination with a recognized vaccine or former infection must take a test within 24 hours of entry unless one has a negative antigen (48 hours) or PCR test (72 hours) made prior to entry.

-People who enter countries outside the EU or the Schengen area without a valid evidence of vaccination with a recognized vaccine or former infection must be aware of whether you enter from a Covid-19 risk land (PT. 13 countries outside the EU and Schengen) or A Covid-19 high-risk land (the rest of the world). Upon entry from a Covid-19 risk land there is a requirement for test within 24 hours of entry. Upon entry from a Covid-19 high-risk country, there are requirements for testing and isolation after entry.
Indrejserestriktioner lempes fra 1. februar 2022
https://sum.dk/nyheder/2022/januar/i...1-februar-2022


Difference in the EU, Schengen and other countries

In addition to virtually all coronary restrictions ceasing at January's output, Covid-19 will no longer be considered as a social critical illness when the calendar shows February.

As it is now, admissions must be able to show documentation for a negative coronatest made prior to the journey to Denmark. However, people resident in Denmark can make the test within 24 hours after entry.

There is a requirement for isolation for ten days - depending on where you come from. There is no requirement for isolation if you enter from an EU or Schengenland.
Vaccinerede kan fra tirsdag rejse ind i Danmark uden krav
https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2022-...mark-uden-krav


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