Moral question: too many miles in acct?
Feb 25, 2008, 9:10 am
#16
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Join Date: Apr 1999
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I have been screwed out of so many miles-n-points as a frequent flyer I would refuse to waste my time trying to correct something not of my making. The airline customer service reps must get a good laugh regarding the callers.
MisterNice
MisterNice
Feb 25, 2008, 9:22 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 161
This is exactly the type of attitude and action that have caused many state legislatures to require people to call 9-1-1 for injured people. We now see the government making laws because people refuse to do the right thing because it is easy or irrational justifications.
Feb 25, 2008, 9:32 am
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 161
OK - Devil's advocate:
Where do rights and ownership come into it? Don't the airlines FF programs T&Cs maintain that they own all miles and accounts and the airline has the right to do as they please when they please? As much as we on FT might like to think of it that way, these aren't bank accounts. If an extra $50k showed up in my bank account in error and I spent it, I'd be legally liable to repay the money. If an extra 50k in miles showed up in my FF account and I blew it on a RT to Europe and the airline didn't come across the mistake until after I'd completed travel, tough luck for them. Most people out there have no idea what their FF mileage balances even are.
I've personally had instances where 15k miles have suddenly appeared in my account as compensation for a bad mx delay weeks previous. I didn't request compensation and they didn't tell me they were giving me any -- the miles just showed up. Sometimes it happens (twice to me, at least).
Cancel that devil's advocate bit up above -- I convinced myself.
peace,
~Ben~
Where do rights and ownership come into it? Don't the airlines FF programs T&Cs maintain that they own all miles and accounts and the airline has the right to do as they please when they please? As much as we on FT might like to think of it that way, these aren't bank accounts. If an extra $50k showed up in my bank account in error and I spent it, I'd be legally liable to repay the money. If an extra 50k in miles showed up in my FF account and I blew it on a RT to Europe and the airline didn't come across the mistake until after I'd completed travel, tough luck for them. Most people out there have no idea what their FF mileage balances even are.
I've personally had instances where 15k miles have suddenly appeared in my account as compensation for a bad mx delay weeks previous. I didn't request compensation and they didn't tell me they were giving me any -- the miles just showed up. Sometimes it happens (twice to me, at least).
Cancel that devil's advocate bit up above -- I convinced myself.
peace,
~Ben~
So, at the check out line the clerk mistakenly places another customer's items in your bag that you haven't paid for. You get out to your car and find them. It's now okay to keep the items because it was a mistake and it wasn't currency?
Those who steal or keep items that don't belong rightfully to them, causes a negative impact to everyone else who participates with that company. Lack of responsibility to do the right thing hurts everyone.
Feb 25, 2008, 7:51 pm
#20
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Feb 26, 2008, 12:11 pm
#21
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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I canceled two F awards to SYD in 1997/8 or so. UA doubled credited me the miles back. I noticed the difference (I think it was in the order of 200K miles) and called the Mileage Plus Service center to get it corrected. The CSR and the acted like I was an idiot for basically being honest.
I vowed after that to always look the other way on UA mistakes in my favor.
I vowed after that to always look the other way on UA mistakes in my favor.
Feb 26, 2008, 9:22 pm
#22
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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I would have to say that there have been SOOOO many instances when they fail to post miles due to me that if I ever goto extra I would keep them and burn them up so fast you wouldnt even see it!
This is the one area in my life where the only way to fight crime is with crime!
Seriously!
KEEP THEM and SHHHHHHHHHHH!
(then tell us whatever tips and tricks may have resulted in the bonus you got!)
This is the one area in my life where the only way to fight crime is with crime!
Seriously!KEEP THEM and SHHHHHHHHHHH!
(then tell us whatever tips and tricks may have resulted in the bonus you got!
)
Feb 26, 2008, 11:53 pm
#24
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I have called an airline before and pointed out an error in my favor - twice. Once they quickly corrected the error and once they noted that it was too much bother and I could just keep them. I felt better doing it.
Those were for flat-out errors. When they do something dumb, like US publishing 5 different "double miles" codes and allowing you to sign up for all of them, I don't feel bad using the defined rules to my benefit.
Those were for flat-out errors. When they do something dumb, like US publishing 5 different "double miles" codes and allowing you to sign up for all of them, I don't feel bad using the defined rules to my benefit.
Hell, I definetly wont call them. How often do they forget to credit you miles or screw your itinerary. How often is your plane dirty or late due to mechanical!? I would see it as a small compensation... even though I wouldnt spend them right away.
I'm happy I just got rid of my AA miles as I tried for 2 years to book something proper. My current balance is 76 so I would appreciate a small error from AA's side in the 6 digits
Mar 2, 2008, 11:23 am
#25
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Plat, 1 MM; SPG LT Plat (RIP); Marriott LT Titanium; Fairmont Plat (RIP), DL Kryptonium Medallion
Posts: 1,791
I would argue to say nothing about having too many miles, but not spend them.
It is very likely that the airline will sooner or later figure out what happened and automatically remove them. If you had already alerted them to remove the miles, and then along comes a program to remove them, you could have them double-removed. Then you would have to call again to get them reinstated. Then they might just think something fishy is going on with all the to-and-fro ing of miles. Why put yourself in that position and make the airline's problem your problem? At the same time, you are under no obligation to spend any miles improperly credited to you.
Perhaps once the time limit (6 months, 1 year, maybe) for asking for back credit has expired, you could either alert the airline, or just donate them to charity. If you've reached a point where it is too late to ask for miles, it would seem fair that it is too late for the airline to take them back. At this point, it would be too late for an automated system to remove them, so you presumably wouldn't run the risk of having them removed twice.
Last summer, for instance, I flew an award ticket where I had to change the routing the day of departure. As a result, I was credited as though I had flown the routing, with a Y fare bonus no less. Sure enough, the miles and EQMs were deleted within a week without any action on my part.
It is very likely that the airline will sooner or later figure out what happened and automatically remove them. If you had already alerted them to remove the miles, and then along comes a program to remove them, you could have them double-removed. Then you would have to call again to get them reinstated. Then they might just think something fishy is going on with all the to-and-fro ing of miles. Why put yourself in that position and make the airline's problem your problem? At the same time, you are under no obligation to spend any miles improperly credited to you.
Perhaps once the time limit (6 months, 1 year, maybe) for asking for back credit has expired, you could either alert the airline, or just donate them to charity. If you've reached a point where it is too late to ask for miles, it would seem fair that it is too late for the airline to take them back. At this point, it would be too late for an automated system to remove them, so you presumably wouldn't run the risk of having them removed twice.
Last summer, for instance, I flew an award ticket where I had to change the routing the day of departure. As a result, I was credited as though I had flown the routing, with a Y fare bonus no less. Sure enough, the miles and EQMs were deleted within a week without any action on my part.
Mar 3, 2008, 6:44 am
#26
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Roanoke, VA
Programs: DL Gold Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,436
This may be "moral relativism," but here's what I would do.
If I got credit for some roundtrip itinerary that I did not take, I would likely report it.
If mysterious promo miles show up that I am not sure what it refers to, I never think twice about it.
If I pay low fare on a flight, and get rebooked into Y class and get bonus qualifying miles, I would not think of reporting it.
If I got credit for some roundtrip itinerary that I did not take, I would likely report it.
If mysterious promo miles show up that I am not sure what it refers to, I never think twice about it.
If I pay low fare on a flight, and get rebooked into Y class and get bonus qualifying miles, I would not think of reporting it.
Mar 3, 2008, 8:58 am
#27
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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I would argue to say nothing about having too many miles, but not spend them.
It is very likely that the airline will sooner or later figure out what happened and automatically remove them. If you had already alerted them to remove the miles, and then along comes a program to remove them, you could have them double-removed. Then you would have to call again to get them reinstated. Then they might just think something fishy is going on with all the to-and-fro ing of miles. Why put yourself in that position and make the airline's problem your problem? At the same time, you are under no obligation to spend any miles improperly credited to you.
Perhaps once the time limit (6 months, 1 year, maybe) for asking for back credit has expired, you could either alert the airline, or just donate them to charity. If you've reached a point where it is too late to ask for miles, it would seem fair that it is too late for the airline to take them back. At this point, it would be too late for an automated system to remove them, so you presumably wouldn't run the risk of having them removed twice.
Last summer, for instance, I flew an award ticket where I had to change the routing the day of departure. As a result, I was credited as though I had flown the routing, with a Y fare bonus no less. Sure enough, the miles and EQMs were deleted within a week without any action on my part.
It is very likely that the airline will sooner or later figure out what happened and automatically remove them. If you had already alerted them to remove the miles, and then along comes a program to remove them, you could have them double-removed. Then you would have to call again to get them reinstated. Then they might just think something fishy is going on with all the to-and-fro ing of miles. Why put yourself in that position and make the airline's problem your problem? At the same time, you are under no obligation to spend any miles improperly credited to you.
Perhaps once the time limit (6 months, 1 year, maybe) for asking for back credit has expired, you could either alert the airline, or just donate them to charity. If you've reached a point where it is too late to ask for miles, it would seem fair that it is too late for the airline to take them back. At this point, it would be too late for an automated system to remove them, so you presumably wouldn't run the risk of having them removed twice.
Last summer, for instance, I flew an award ticket where I had to change the routing the day of departure. As a result, I was credited as though I had flown the routing, with a Y fare bonus no less. Sure enough, the miles and EQMs were deleted within a week without any action on my part.
I actually like this the best. Now to put the MM spin on it, here's what I would now do:
Do what is said above... leave them and say nothing. Probably right about the twice thing. I would just let them figure out the error in their own proven methods.
BUT if...
(A) some long period of time goes by where they did not take them back, you should get to keep them. Example: Our company had to pay some city parking tickets for its vans parked in the wrong spaces. We paid them but one was not on file. For 6 months I have been checking with the city who tells me this ticket does not show up. They tell me that happens once in a while when the tickets get hand written and not passed in by the officer. It is rare but the CSR told me, and I quote: "Give it another few months of checking back and if we dont have it in our system by then, you get a free pass."
(B) if in a reasonable amount of time these extra miles don't go away on their own, do go USE Them for a redeemed award ticket but DO fly before they cancel it on ya.
Now, if they come asking about those miles, tell them you will do some Credit Card activity to replenish the account, or online airline mall shopping to get them back to them some time, Then, finally YOU have them where they always have us! Now make THEM wait 4-6-8-10-12 weeks
!... I dunno, maybe email them with no phone number and just your first name something like this: "Dear sirs, With regards to the missing miles to are requesting, we understand your frustration in this matter. We are sorry for the convenience but our research department needs to take its sweet time going over an antiquated database (your home computer and that very real fact you are too busy to help an airline, what with bills to pay and three screeming babies in the household, etc) and we will work to serve you better and get back to you within 12 weeks time. Than you for your continued patience
"Oh I would LOVE to get the chance to do THAT!
Mar 3, 2008, 10:06 am
#28
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
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This reminds me of a vignette on Car Talk. The new owner of a used car found several hundred dollars hidden under the seat. The Car Talk guys said it was good karma to give it back. "However," they said, "if the amount turns out to be several thousand dollars, call us back and we will give you a different answer!" @:-)
I once had a large erroneous posting. I just waited and it went away by itself, so I never had to answer the question.
I once had a large erroneous posting. I just waited and it went away by itself, so I never had to answer the question.
Mar 3, 2008, 10:22 am
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
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dewey chetem & how/ hahaha
i had written to Northwest about some erronious/missing mile postings in my WorldPerks account months ago. I pointed out several things that needed to credit in relation to a bunch of printouts I sent them for every NWA mall transaction. This took some work and they had me mail everything in but that cost me money, so I asked for miles as compensation.
I pointed out where they should have been crediting me more miles for some transactions (due to 2:1 or 3:1 offers on the shopping mall portals) and in one case, I mentioned that a big mile posting for a purchase done at staples.com seemed to have credited 2x more miles than I should have gotten, so I was owed LESS than what they gave me.
Well they bocked about compensating me for the longest time. Then they gave me 1,500 miles. I said that did not cover the $30 I spent to get them the very paperwork printed proof and info they aksed for. I asked more. They eventually gave me 9,000 more. They also left a transaction on my account totalling 1400 miles and did not change the staples one either.
All I had done was to tell them to just try to get it right--asking instead for only say 5,000 miles to cover my expense, and to just please get all the rest posted correctly in my account!... But this took a TON of time and effort and maybe someone over there finally saw that and just left it alone. So sometimes it works out in your favor, and even though I tried to get them to credit or debit me correctly, they did not really care.
i had written to Northwest about some erronious/missing mile postings in my WorldPerks account months ago. I pointed out several things that needed to credit in relation to a bunch of printouts I sent them for every NWA mall transaction. This took some work and they had me mail everything in but that cost me money, so I asked for miles as compensation.
I pointed out where they should have been crediting me more miles for some transactions (due to 2:1 or 3:1 offers on the shopping mall portals) and in one case, I mentioned that a big mile posting for a purchase done at staples.com seemed to have credited 2x more miles than I should have gotten, so I was owed LESS than what they gave me.
Well they bocked about compensating me for the longest time. Then they gave me 1,500 miles. I said that did not cover the $30 I spent to get them the very paperwork printed proof and info they aksed for. I asked more. They eventually gave me 9,000 more. They also left a transaction on my account totalling 1400 miles and did not change the staples one either.
All I had done was to tell them to just try to get it right--asking instead for only say 5,000 miles to cover my expense, and to just please get all the rest posted correctly in my account!... But this took a TON of time and effort and maybe someone over there finally saw that and just left it alone. So sometimes it works out in your favor, and even though I tried to get them to credit or debit me correctly, they did not really care.
Mar 3, 2008, 5:44 pm
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Posts: 563
If I am not awarded all the miles I am entitled to, I call the airline to give me proper credit. But is it my responsibility to inform the airline if there are too many miles for one reason or another or is that the responsibility of the airline. If a cashier gives me too much change, I give back what is not mine. Does that apply to miles. What about all the time it takes to get miles that are owed. There is no compensation for the time wasted by the airlines's mistake. Your thoughts?
