ETHICS - "$0" Rate Errors & Demands to Honor
Sep 8, 2001 | 8:42 am
#136
Join Date: May 2001
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In spite of my relatively short tenure here on the boards, I think the points made below by anim8r are of more concern than Dirk's 318 room nights. If this is what FT is evolving into, it's pathetic. Thanks for your comments anim8r.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anim8r:
I appreciate that DJohannw has shed some light on his actions. Peeling back the curtains of secrecy was all I was really after. FT is an open-to-all community willing to share and discuss all things travel related.
IMHO, some members of the "list", who also benefit from FT, want to regulate the flow of information. Sharing info amongst an e-mail list is great, as long as info is allowed to proceed later on and not be dammed up for more than a month. First report of Hilton's glitch was July 21st; window of opportunity closed on August 8th, 18 days later.
We allow some time (2 or 3 days at most) to make as much use of "specials" before we post to FT, but to not even post that there was such a deal or try to cover-up when TMK made his original post more than a month later; BAD KARMA.
FT as a community has been there for us. I know that I've benefitted and tried to return the favor... now we have to be part of a faction whose "covenant" diminishes FT?
Now, what happens to those commendable folks like TravelManKen, SMessier, and others who allow info to proceed on its natural course onto FT? Why try to diminish FT?
Please try to understand that I am not anti-"list" as I am really pro-FT community. I have only one handle or alias, anim8r, and have only posted as anim8r. I stand behind my posts.
Contributing useful "specials" or advice to FT should continue and not be discouraged by some "list" Commandant. Sorry cheap shot, the adolescence in me slipped out.
edited --Nothing was subtracted, only added to clarify myself
[This message has been edited by anim8r (edited 09-08-2001).]</font>
I appreciate that DJohannw has shed some light on his actions. Peeling back the curtains of secrecy was all I was really after. FT is an open-to-all community willing to share and discuss all things travel related.
IMHO, some members of the "list", who also benefit from FT, want to regulate the flow of information. Sharing info amongst an e-mail list is great, as long as info is allowed to proceed later on and not be dammed up for more than a month. First report of Hilton's glitch was July 21st; window of opportunity closed on August 8th, 18 days later.
We allow some time (2 or 3 days at most) to make as much use of "specials" before we post to FT, but to not even post that there was such a deal or try to cover-up when TMK made his original post more than a month later; BAD KARMA.
FT as a community has been there for us. I know that I've benefitted and tried to return the favor... now we have to be part of a faction whose "covenant" diminishes FT?
Now, what happens to those commendable folks like TravelManKen, SMessier, and others who allow info to proceed on its natural course onto FT? Why try to diminish FT?
Please try to understand that I am not anti-"list" as I am really pro-FT community. I have only one handle or alias, anim8r, and have only posted as anim8r. I stand behind my posts.
Contributing useful "specials" or advice to FT should continue and not be discouraged by some "list" Commandant. Sorry cheap shot, the adolescence in me slipped out.
edited --Nothing was subtracted, only added to clarify myself
[This message has been edited by anim8r (edited 09-08-2001).]</font>
Sep 8, 2001 | 9:42 am
#137
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anim8r- if its not to much trouble..could you send me an email? Yours address isnt in your profile.
Grazie mille!
------------------
Have a great day!!
~~Missy~~
Grazie mille!
------------------
Have a great day!!
~~Missy~~
Sep 8, 2001 | 10:25 am
#138
Join Date: Feb 2001
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This will be my last reply by myself to this topic, because this is about the only post that is trying to exchange arguments in contrast to flames only...
[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
First, this was the 2nd time not the third time this has happened. Second, you appear
[/QOUTE]
Well, Mexico City and Vancouver make this occurence the third time in my eyes...;-)!
Well, that may be their reaction, yes. We will see how things develop.
I understand that everybody has a different understanding of what's appropiate, and I really honor your position as well as I ask you to accept my view. Many people replied to my eMail to the List expressing that they fell the same way as I do, and I acknowledge that there are a lot of people here in this thread that think otherwise.
Again, they could do so, but then again, THEY asked me for a price. I did not ask for any remedy before I was asked!
Well, at this point I have no intention to sue Hilton over the 0$-rates, and also so far no real reason to consider to do so. If I had to sue them, you can be sure that I would not sue Hilton in the USA because of the problems you mentioned, but rather in my home-country.
Hey, that's inflating your pfennigs...;-)! Two Pfennigs are going to be roughly one cent after January 1, 2002.
Greetings - Dirk
[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
First, this was the 2nd time not the third time this has happened. Second, you appear
[/QOUTE]
Well, Mexico City and Vancouver make this occurence the third time in my eyes...;-)!
to have been aware of the prior problem and the proposed remedy for same -- first night free and remaining nights at 1/2 price. Therefore, Hilton may argue that that is their standard response and that you had notice of the remedy before you booked the room.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Third, I think Hilton's offer is quite generous and that far from considering it lame, you should accept it.
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Third, I think Hilton's offer is quite generous and that far from considering it lame, you should accept it.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
IMHO, Hilton could very easily tell you to stuff it and blacklist you from earning HHonors points. And, may I ask, what would be your remedy??
</font>
IMHO, Hilton could very easily tell you to stuff it and blacklist you from earning HHonors points. And, may I ask, what would be your remedy??
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Are you going to sue Hilton over a $0 rate?? I am quite aware of the liberal attitudes amongst jurors, but do you really think that the poor idiot in the juror box is going to sympathize with you, especially since Hilton has given you a generous offer? Further, you may not obtain much sympathy since I assume you are a German national. In addition, you would have to sue in Federal Court because of diversity problems, and this is well known to be a far less hospitable place for plaintiffs.
</font>
Are you going to sue Hilton over a $0 rate?? I am quite aware of the liberal attitudes amongst jurors, but do you really think that the poor idiot in the juror box is going to sympathize with you, especially since Hilton has given you a generous offer? Further, you may not obtain much sympathy since I assume you are a German national. In addition, you would have to sue in Federal Court because of diversity problems, and this is well known to be a far less hospitable place for plaintiffs.
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
My 2 pfennings (soon to be .02 Euros)[/B]</font>
My 2 pfennings (soon to be .02 Euros)[/B]</font>
Greetings - Dirk
Sep 8, 2001 | 3:54 pm
#139
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Posts: n/a
Dirk --
I was unaware of the Vancouver incident. Pray tell when did it occur, how many were involved, and how was it settled? Did Hilton offer the same deal?
Also, I was under the impression that in Germany, you had to pay an attorney for them to bring a case, as contingency fees were not allowed. In addition, I think it unlikely that a German court would take jurisdiction of the case for although you are a German national (?) the venue for the claim was in San Diego.
Finally, I like your comment re the Euros!
PS -- I think you will find that those here on FT are a great deal more representative of the traveling public/road warriors than those who subscribe to the List.
I am sure you are a decent guy. I just think you went way, way, overboard!
As to Hilton contacting you, I think their response to this and the other fiascos has been stupid, but who am I to tell them how to run a business. All I can say is that as for me, since Hilton apparently treats these "mistakes" as valid rates, then I no longer feel there is any problem with booking them. Inasmuch as they have treated those who have booked these rates to a free night and a 50% discount for the rest of the stay, I view these rates and Hilton's response to be nothing more than an extraordinary BounceBack Weekend Rate. Until such time as they do away with this "rate," I will take full advantage of it when my travel plans permit.
However, I think that even you would agree that you have gone a bit overboard?
Regards,
D2B
I was unaware of the Vancouver incident. Pray tell when did it occur, how many were involved, and how was it settled? Did Hilton offer the same deal?
Also, I was under the impression that in Germany, you had to pay an attorney for them to bring a case, as contingency fees were not allowed. In addition, I think it unlikely that a German court would take jurisdiction of the case for although you are a German national (?) the venue for the claim was in San Diego.
Finally, I like your comment re the Euros!
PS -- I think you will find that those here on FT are a great deal more representative of the traveling public/road warriors than those who subscribe to the List.
I am sure you are a decent guy. I just think you went way, way, overboard!
As to Hilton contacting you, I think their response to this and the other fiascos has been stupid, but who am I to tell them how to run a business. All I can say is that as for me, since Hilton apparently treats these "mistakes" as valid rates, then I no longer feel there is any problem with booking them. Inasmuch as they have treated those who have booked these rates to a free night and a 50% discount for the rest of the stay, I view these rates and Hilton's response to be nothing more than an extraordinary BounceBack Weekend Rate. Until such time as they do away with this "rate," I will take full advantage of it when my travel plans permit.
However, I think that even you would agree that you have gone a bit overboard?
Regards,
D2B
Sep 8, 2001 | 4:29 pm
#140
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The simple question is this:
Has a mistake been taken advantage of? Yes.
Commentary:
It saddens me when we try to justify what we know is unethical. I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this.
It just isn't nice.
Has a mistake been taken advantage of? Yes.
Commentary:
It saddens me when we try to justify what we know is unethical. I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this.
It just isn't nice.
Sep 8, 2001 | 7:40 pm
#141
Join Date: May 1999
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I don't understand why we're giving advice to either Hilton or djohannw. Hilton will make a decision based on its business interests, and djohannw will negotiate on his own behalf. If Hilton wants to tell him where to get off they'll do so; if djohannw wants to settle for 3 upgrades and a copy of "Be My Guest" he can do that too. Of course they aren't going to give him 300 free nights; that's just preposterous.
One more thing: Goldlust said "apparently I have a decency that must be lacking in others."
Yeah, I'm sure you're a friggin' saint. Give us a break!
One more thing: Goldlust said "apparently I have a decency that must be lacking in others."
Yeah, I'm sure you're a friggin' saint. Give us a break!
Sep 8, 2001 | 10:33 pm
#142
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Posts: 76
zrs70 posted
Interesting ethics zrs70. Were you not the guy who just posted on the United board that you paid for a Lifetime membership in the Ansett Golden Wing Club (against the apparent Australian citizens only rule) for only $1,500 saving you mega bucks over what you'd need to pay United. Is THAT 'ethical' back-door behaviour in your judgement? 
Every time you walk into a Red Carpet Club from now on, for the rest of your life Ansett is billed $US25 a visit. "I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this". Wonder how Ansett feels? Let he without sin cast the first stone.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The simple question is this:
has a mistake been taken advantage of? Yes.
Commentary:
It saddens me when we try to justify what we know is unethical. I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this.
It just isn't nice. </font>
has a mistake been taken advantage of? Yes.
Commentary:
It saddens me when we try to justify what we know is unethical. I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this.
It just isn't nice. </font>
Every time you walk into a Red Carpet Club from now on, for the rest of your life Ansett is billed $US25 a visit. "I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this". Wonder how Ansett feels? Let he without sin cast the first stone.
Sep 9, 2001 | 12:40 am
#143
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flyboy1:
zrs70 posted
Interesting ethics zrs70. Were you not the guy who just posted on the United board that you paid for a Lifetime membership in the Ansett Golden Wing Club (against the apparent Australian citizens only rule) for only $1,500 saving you mega bucks over what you'd need to pay United. Is THAT 'ethical' back-door behaviour in your judgement?
Every time you walk into a Red Carpet Club from now on, for the rest of your life Ansett is billed $US25 a visit. "I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this". Wonder how Ansett feels? Let he without sin cast the first stone.
</font>
zrs70 posted
Interesting ethics zrs70. Were you not the guy who just posted on the United board that you paid for a Lifetime membership in the Ansett Golden Wing Club (against the apparent Australian citizens only rule) for only $1,500 saving you mega bucks over what you'd need to pay United. Is THAT 'ethical' back-door behaviour in your judgement?
Every time you walk into a Red Carpet Club from now on, for the rest of your life Ansett is billed $US25 a visit. "I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this". Wonder how Ansett feels? Let he without sin cast the first stone.
</font>
Every time you walk into a Red Carpet Club from now on, for the rest of your life Ansett is billed $US25 a visit. "I would be hurt if I owned a business and one of my frequent buyers/ flyers/ stayers/patrons did this". Wonder how Ansett feels? Let he without sin cast the first stone.
Interesting comparison, but innacurate. There was no mistake in any advertised fees. Further, Ansett promotes the use of RCC. I've never heard of the "Australian Citizens only" rule.
CO sells lifetime PC memberships for much less than NW does. HP's is even lower. Yet all allow you access to all clubs. Which will you buy?
Nevertheless, I decided in the end not to get the membership. (Actually, I got it then reconsidered and voided it).
Sep 9, 2001 | 5:21 am
#144
Join Date: Feb 2001
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I was unaware of the Vancouver incident. Pray tell when did it occur, how many were involved, and how was it settled? Did Hilton offer the same deal?
</font>
I was unaware of the Vancouver incident. Pray tell when did it occur, how many were involved, and how was it settled? Did Hilton offer the same deal?
</font>
If you want to discuss this further, feel free to eMail me. You don't have an eMail adress on your profile...
Greetings - Dirk
Sep 9, 2001 | 11:13 pm
#145
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Schlimm, schlimm.
Bitte hrt auf, auf Dirk rumzuhacken. Er hat die Dummheit einiger Programmierer ausgenutzt. Das geschieht denen nur recht.
Bitte: nichts gegen bestimmte Nationalitten richten.
[This message has been edited by Nobbi (edited 09-10-2001).]
Bitte hrt auf, auf Dirk rumzuhacken. Er hat die Dummheit einiger Programmierer ausgenutzt. Das geschieht denen nur recht.
Bitte: nichts gegen bestimmte Nationalitten richten.
[This message has been edited by Nobbi (edited 09-10-2001).]
Sep 10, 2001 | 1:31 am
#146
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nobbi:
Schlimm, schlimm.
Diejenigen, die dies nicht verstehen, zhlem sowieso nicht.
Bitte hrt auf, auf Dirk rumzuhacken. Er hat die Dummheit einiger Prorammierer ausgenutzt. Das geschieht denen nur recht.
Bitte: nichts gegen bestimmte Nationalitten richten.</font>
Schlimm, schlimm.
Diejenigen, die dies nicht verstehen, zhlem sowieso nicht.
Bitte hrt auf, auf Dirk rumzuhacken. Er hat die Dummheit einiger Prorammierer ausgenutzt. Das geschieht denen nur recht.
Bitte: nichts gegen bestimmte Nationalitten richten.</font>
Sep 10, 2001 | 7:50 am
#147
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Cette conversation a continue trop longtemps en anglais. Maintenant vous voulez la faire encore en Allemand? Pourquoi? Persone ne changront n'importe qui esprit en ce moment de toute facon!
Sep 10, 2001 | 8:00 am
#148
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Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir?
Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?
Voulez-vous couchez avec moi ce soir?
Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?
Mmm, Hmmm
Itchi Gitchi Ya Ya Da Da
Itchi Gitchi Ya Ya Here
Mocha-choco-lata Ya Ya
Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?
Voulez-vous couchez avec moi ce soir?
Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?
Mmm, Hmmm
Itchi Gitchi Ya Ya Da Da
Itchi Gitchi Ya Ya Here
Mocha-choco-lata Ya Ya
Sep 10, 2001 | 11:57 am
#150
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:
Cette conversation a continue trop longtemps en anglais. </font>
Cette conversation a continue trop longtemps en anglais. </font>