It's not free on Capital One, it is just not disclosed seperately as a line item.

See my post #676. I recently got rates better than the interbank rate in effect on the day of the transaction (probably due to a more advantageous rate in effect when the charge was processed). I saw no evidence of any plus-up in the fee, and certainly nothing on the order of 1%.

Plus, I thought that non-disclosure of exchange fees was the whole point of the class action lawsuit that originated the recent disclosure changes.

I've had experience with a variety of cards.

With Citi, the "unbilled activity" usually shows up as almost exactly (or slightly below) the interbank rate for the day of the purchase. Then a separate 3% of all foreign purchases shows up in finance charges on my statement.

With Target Visa, the "unbilled activity" usually shows up as almost exactly interbank rate +1%. There is no separate line item.

With CapitalOne, the "unbilled activity" usually shows up as almost exactly (or slightly below) the interbank rate for the day of the purchase. There is no separate line item.

Bottom line: CapitalOne eats the Visa/MC fee. Others don't.

So at the end of the day, is the Pentagon Federal CU Visa card (net 0.25% gain) the best deal for Americans travelling abroad?

Ref: http://www.freefrequentflyermiles.com/index.htm

No. The CapitalOne No Hassle Cash Rewards (net 1.0% gain) is.

Dovster or Micah can you verify this info which is contrary to everything that has been published in the last year?

Is Citi now effectively charging 2% for ATM withdrawals in foreign countries?

Because last time I checked (I haven't been out of the country for a few months) the actual exchange rate on my overseas withdrawals using my Citi ATM card was only 1% (I had to calculate it since the transaction posts as a single amount). There was no additional "forex fee" listed anywhere on my statement. This was true whether I used a Citi ATM or another bank (the latter would post a separate ATM charge of $1.50 - which would also be the case if I used a non-Citi ATM in the U.S.)

Sorry, I don't have a Citi card so I wouldn't know. My Bank of America ATM card expired recently and I was forced to use my BOA Visa when I was in Switzerland. On a 300 SWF ($241) withdrawal I was charged a $10 "finance" fee. I wish I had been able to get away with only 2%!

I don't have a bank account with Citi (only credit cards), so I'm not sure, either.

Every time I have taken the time to check, the effective Citibank exchange rate, including the foreign fee, was better than the oanda.com interbank rate (with no added percentage) for that day.

I just called Citibank and spoke to a very convincing sounding representative in New Delhi who categorically stated that the new 1% foreign fee is the same 1% that was formerly bundled into the exchange rate. He said several times, in no uncertain terms, that Citibank itself, and not MasterCard, carries out the conversion from foreign currency to US dollars, using 'market rates' and then adding the 1% fee separately. According to him, MasterCard is not involved in the currency exchange and does not add any fee for any reason. The total cost of the new two-line entry is the same as the old system, at least according to the representative I spoke to.

1% total fee is fine on ATM transactions - if you typically withdraw $100-200 I think it's hard to find a better deal with any major bricks/mortar bank, particularly as some charge $5 per transaction.

I sure don't want to pay 2% - at least not without knowing it, and no offense but I'm not sure I would trust some CSR in India. A more authoritative source would be someone who has recently received a statement and can verify the actual rate used.

Addendum - from the T&Cs for ATM cards on Citi website:

Outside the U.S.
Outside of the U.S., you can use your ATM/Debit Card at more than 7,000 Citibank ATMs free of charge. However, if you get cash in the local currency at any ATM�Citibank or non-Citibank�then there is a foreign exchange fee that totals 1% of the transaction, in U.S. dollars. For example, if you withdrew 100 Euros at an ATM in Italy, and the value in USD was $125, then the 1% fee would be $1.25. This exchange fee is also applied when you use your ATM/Debit Card to make purchases overseas.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please be aware that�inside and outside of the U.S.�other institutions may charge you for using their ATMs. These fees are beyond Citibank's control and are in addition to the fee that Citibank may charge for using non-Citibank ATMs.

If in fact Citi is adding an additional 1% in the form of an undisclosed markup included in the conversion amount, then it sounds like some class action lawyer is going to have a nice case soon.

Care to provide details?

Data for June 19th, 2006

BRL 1,000 (one thousand Brazilian reais) withdrawn from a Citibank ATM in Rio de Janeiro using Citibank�s banking card with the MC logo.

Amount charged on my Citibank statement:

USD: 444.15
Foreign fee: 4.44
Total: 448.59

Exchange rates for 06/19/06: 444.21/445.70 (bid/ask) interbank rate on oanda.com

Total converted amount for BRL 1,000
according to oanda.com:
445.698 (interbank)
450.158 (interbank+1%, calculated by oanda.com)

According to xe.com:
447.50 (mid-market)
451.98 (mid-market+1%, calculated by me)

Moral: Citibank�s converted amount of USD 444.15 is better than either oanda.com�s interbank rate or xe.com�s mid-market rate. Citibank�s total of USD 448.59 represents a 0.649% markup over oanda.com�s interbank rate and a 0.244% markup over xe.com�s mid-market rate. So � this case seems to show that Citibank�s new foreign fee has not brought the total markup to the 2% level. It seems to be still 1%, or lower. Anyone know of a better deal?

I am the OP, and I just updated the first post to reflect this:

Added 7/13/06:

FlyerTalk Wiki on this subject: http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index....reign_Exchange

Which Bank Card is Best? (http://www.smartertravel.com/travel-...html?id=255059)

Foreign Exchange 101 (http://www.smartertravel.com/travel-....html?id=14332)

If you want more to be added to the first post, please PM me. I'll be happy to cooperate.

i got this error when clicking on the wiki

I think I fixed it. try it again.

Re-fixed again after post #751.