I do not have children. However, I ran into a situation yesterday and was wondering what the FT folks think.

Travelling from DFW-LGA, I was upgraded to 1st class. Took my seat and was looking forward to a relaxing trip. A family comes on the plane (husband, wife and 2 kids. The son was about 5-7 years old) and sat in 1st also about 4 rows behind me.

The son decided he would comment, talk and scream the 1st 1/2 of the flight. Normally, I have lots of patience. However, after this experience, I dont think that certain children should be allowed to fly in 1st class.

1. The parents chose not to repremand their child and ask the child to be quiet.

2. When ordering, the child did not say "please" or "thank you." This is one thing that bugs me more than anything in 1st class. I have found that most passengers do not use manners towards the FAs. Everytime they bring me something I make sure I thank them and also use the word please. It is not too difficult. By 5-7 years old, children should know better.

Sorry to rant. If the child had not quieted down in the 2nd half of the flight, I would have said something to the parents -- but I fell that should not have to happen. They should have the courtesy to their fellow passengers to keep thier children in line.

Thought? Ideas? Comments (hopefully none to angry at me)

--Jim

I think before one travels with children in first class they should recognize a certain level of behavior is required. My wife and I often travel with our 1 and 3 year olds. If we are traveling when we think they will be sleeping or should be in control we will go in first class. If however we know they will be wide awake and the flight is long enough that they will not be able to sit still, then we go in coach. If unexpected crying occurs we address the situation including walking to the back of the plane or going into the restroom until they calm down.

While a crying child is not pleasant, the first class passenger speaking as loud as possible into the airphone to impress other passengers is equally unpleasant. Last week I was seated in first class next to a woman whos perfume was so strong it was reaching toxic levels, I would gladly have traded her for a crying child.

It not children that's the problem, its parents, or travelers in general, that fail to give any consideration to those who will be seated near them.

Well they have rules about behavior for the lounges now -- children will be allowed so long as they behave. It's a little more difficult on a plane (unless the economy cabin is full) because you just can't kick them off in mid-air. You also cannot get a kid into disciplined mode if they are not used to being in disciplined mode in the rest of their existence.

A partial solution would be some form of compensation for those flying the First Class cabin if the kid was really obnoxious. I know there has been compensation given when there was an obnoxious adult in the forward cabin. A letter on the subject wouldn't hurt. It is possible they would black list the kid just like they black list "air rage" passengers.

A little extreme perhaps but it might send a message to travellers.

I personally don't mind chatty kids and even holding other people's kids while a parent goes to the washroom etc. (as long as it is my choice). Screaming and demanding kids are another matter entirely. It shouldn't matter whether they are in the economy or first class cabin.

Jimbo:

Thats a tough subject. My advice would be to ask the FA to ask the parents if they think they could tone things down a little.

As for banning certain types of people in 1st. Well thats not going to fly

Maybe the family paid for first class, you were an upgrade

Seriously, I'd ask the FA the quiet things down. A too loud passenger isnt polite, regardless of age.

the introduction-story: a big PARENTS problem.

And may be, as you describe it, it became also a UA problem, if the head-steward just neglects/accepts.

I would also book with (hopefully soon grand-) chidren in domestic first (NEVER in 3-class-first) - even more so, as long as the children are very young and have no right for their own seat - than I would need that extra space!

Yes I am also disturbed when children cry for a long time - , but that's life and I ACCEPT it and often (in most cases) I admire their mother/parents for their "work" during the flight. I am never disturbed, but happy, if for example a mother gives her breast to her baby in public (I don't know if my english does describe correctly what I wanted to express).

Their are untolerable exceptions of BAD behaviour of passengers - YES. My personal experience is, 4 out of 5 times it is an ADULT and 20% (only) a child (and their "guilty" neglecting parents). Then I would clearly try to get the head-steward involved - and I would be pretty sure that a majority of other first-/business-class flyers will agree.

I've been thinking alot about this lately, as I'm taking Cheri and her 7 year old son First Class to Disney World at the end of May. I don't think he's going to be a problem, but kids can be naturally figetty so I've taken the following precautions to ensure not disrupting fellow passengers:

1. Booked him in the window seat (something to look at).

2. Booked Bulkhead seats. While not the most comfortable for us, it will ensure that if he keeps reaching for his stuff in the seatpocket, he won't be shaking the seat in front of him. It will also allow him to get out of his window seat without grabing the seat in front of him and bumping/pulling another passenger's seat.

3. Ordered the McDonalds Meal and bringing plenty of activities to occupy his time.

4. Will discuss prior to boarding just what he can and can't do while on board (such as not reclining seatback unless going to sleep, loud talk, walking about, etc.

The above, along with a little advance planning and discussion, should, I hope, ensure a pleasant flight for all of us. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Premex:

Based upon your post, I dont think you'll have a problem. Most of the time I've seen "problems" with children flying its been the parent thats the problem.

You might want to try the old bribe technique, I've found it very useful with my nephews and nieces over the years.

One other point, If you get to the gate early, ask the gate folks about arranging a short cockpit visit if the boy is interested, pilots seem to enjoy
giving a quick visit to kids while boarding.

JimBoLiGuy... I too would have asked for the pursur or the first flight attendant and just asked nicely that the child was annoying me and if they could ask the parents to do something about him.

But some good points have been made here:

*It's important to give the child a lot of stuff to keep them busy (and it could also help if they can get tired out BEFORE getting on the plane so the kids go off to Z land!)
*Rudi's absoluately right: It's mostly the adults who act like the children and the children who set a better example. I've seen so many times children who say Please and thank you and grown men saying "Well it's about time."
One little girl told her mother "I guess that man was never taught manners!"
*Showing the plane is a great way to keep the kids quiet. (It's also for the older kids like one 33 yr old from Jerzee!) Also: give them wings! They'll think they're special.

OF course I am not an expert, no children, just "single with cats" (although when I had to fly once with both cats in First they were better behaved than the snobby, pompous big man in the designer suit who spent the whole flight complaining about everything from his ex-wife to the F-A's to me having cats. "It's very bad to let animals on the plane" I was tempted to introduce him to EDDIE.

I paid extra for the cats to go on the plane but the F-A's complemented that the cats could teach the humans manners.

OMNI FOR RUDI: I hope you become a grandfather someday and I know you will make a great one! WIth happy, well-manner grandchildren who will teach adults how to act in a plane!




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CATMAN

Additional suggestions for Premex:

A toy or toys that the child has never seen before the flight is always a good idea. It doesn't have to be expensive, just the idea of something new.

Also, remember that MCO does not allow children to pre-board (just because they're children), so bring your elite/1st class proof to the gate.

FFLASV:

Let's see if I get this straight.

First you check your crystal ball to see if your infant and toddler are going to sleep or fuss on the plane. Then, with that accurate forcast in hand, you make your first class reservations. Then "If unexpected crying occurs we address the situation including walking to the back of the plane or going into the restroom until they calm down".

So you make the poor lowly coach class slobs deal with your out-of-control children so the fine ladies and gentlemen of the elite class don't look down their noses at you.

I would suggest that the first class passengers (most of whom haven't paid extra but are simply very frequent flyers or airline employees or their families) are the most logical people on the plane to be forced to endure a little crying or screaming fit from an unruly child. At least they are comfortable and well-fed. Being shoe-horned into coach class seats is a miserable enough experience without the addition of crying first class brats to the equation.

Maybe I'll take my own darling children for a little walk up front the next time they act up on a plane!

The problem is with the parents; not the child. Just as it is unacceptable for a child to scream in a movie theater, a parent needs to sternly tell their child that unacceptable behavior is not tolerated.

My boy is only 11 months old and at this young age travels well. However, I know that he will not be as easy as he gets older. My plan for future travel includes taking along many toys and books and giving them out one at a time as he gets bored with each thing. Also, taking along a few favorite snacks, taking walks down the aisle if it is a twin aisle plane and taking night flights or segments that are not too long.

In other words, any of you would be glad to fly with me and my son.

I agree it is the parents responsibility. Over the 1998 holidays I had several flights where children were in first class.
The behavior ranged from very polite, well behaved and QUIET, to the extreme opposite(which we all can describe).
In all cases it was the parents(or adults) involvement that influenced the children.
How can we get behavior info to the parents...
In all cases the flights were on Delta and the FA's did not do anything to the "misbehavin':

PremEx:

Your post should be required reading for all parents prior to bringing children on a flight. They need to be on their best behavior, rather than being ignored and unsupervised by their parents.
Sadly, there are a few adults who also inflict poor behavior on their fellow passengers.

I have been there and done that, i.e. the travelling with kids thing. My son is 3 and can be a handful on the flight between NRT and SFO. He is good for a while and then gets fed up. I have the following advice to offer.

1. Try a series of decongestants (not all at the same time)with your child several days before flying to see which works best. Benadryl puts some people to sleep and makes others hyper.

Dramamine also works well towards calming kids as well as their stomachs. It comes in kids strength and contains some deongestant I believe.

2. Always travel with a partner. This means that you and your partner can trade off carrying/holding/playing with etc. the child.

3. Talk about the trip as much as possible before hand, maybe even set up a mock seat on the couch for a few days before the flight. Make a game out of it and make the child feel as proud of themself as possible about accomplishing the simple things like fastening the belt. Discuss in depth the fact that the seat back in front is connected to a nother passenger's seat and is therefore off limits. No using it as a brace to hoist themself up to stand up.

4. Whenever possible fly economy with the child and spend the difference on yourself next trip.

Finally, lots of love and strong alcohol at the other end of the trip helps too.

I also agree that it's a parent problem. And as a single guy with no children, I tend to get a lot more annoyed whenever someone else's kid starts bothering me. That applies to restaurants and other public places as well. My tolerance level is say, half of that of a person who's got kids themselves.
But I think it's the same sentiment throughout the cabin. Everyone who flyes First Class, expect nothing but exceptional service, and that includes passenger behavior.

Complaining to the F/A won't do you any good. She/he can perhaps help the crying child by giving them food or toys. But that's already unnecessary generosity from the airline. Parents should know how to educate their children better.

I've often mumbled to myself, but loud enough so that they'd hear me saying- "Shut up". Or sigh in frustration. It's not the most diplomatic approach, but I think it gets the point accross.

I know it's often hard, even for good parents that teach their children how to behave, but if you are travelling with children, it's best to go coach.

And I bet if they invent something like The "Chuck-e-Cheese Airways" 1- A kid friendly airline, it'd be an instant hit! Hmmm. Biz idea...

Tim

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1) Chuck-e-Cheese is a chain of restaurant/playground for kids in California.