Travelling with Children in First Class
Jun 2, 2000 | 5:42 pm
#76
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Francisco UA1K; AA Gold
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jAAck posts
Gee, I thought that was just standard procedure on AA.
As for the question of "discrimination" against kids, most of what passes for discrimination may not be nice, but isn't illegal. For example, age discrimination laws basically protect those over 40 - you can do what you want to the younger set, including ban them. Sexual Orientation discrimination depends on which state; in some foreign countries it's prohibited and in others it seems to be mandatory. Yes, the airlines could (and have) banned those who smell bad, or could even ban people with bad hair...not nice, perhaps, but not illegal.
Just my 2
It was so bad the FAs left the cabin as soon as their
service was done and rarely came back.
service was done and rarely came back.
As for the question of "discrimination" against kids, most of what passes for discrimination may not be nice, but isn't illegal. For example, age discrimination laws basically protect those over 40 - you can do what you want to the younger set, including ban them. Sexual Orientation discrimination depends on which state; in some foreign countries it's prohibited and in others it seems to be mandatory. Yes, the airlines could (and have) banned those who smell bad, or could even ban people with bad hair...not nice, perhaps, but not illegal.
Just my 2
Jun 2, 2000 | 9:00 pm
#78
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 40,055
Great thread, great thread. Everyone makes an excellent point (a point others have pointed out, point taken?)
I travelled on a marvelous CO flight in 1996 with my then-5 and then-6 year old and it was a great flight, one of the best I've ever taken.
OTOH, we've all had examples of unruly kids that were not restrained by uncaring parents, rude and discourteous.
Recently I was at a party and speaking to an Indian couple. They had sent their 7 year old from Virginia to Frankfurt to Delhi, all by himself. I was flabbergasted. I would never, never, never had done this with my kids.
So I guess it boils down to the kid and to the parents' expectations as to their behavior. I think in some cultures kids tend to go wild, in others kids tend to be more socialized even at an early age.
I travelled on a marvelous CO flight in 1996 with my then-5 and then-6 year old and it was a great flight, one of the best I've ever taken.
OTOH, we've all had examples of unruly kids that were not restrained by uncaring parents, rude and discourteous.
Recently I was at a party and speaking to an Indian couple. They had sent their 7 year old from Virginia to Frankfurt to Delhi, all by himself. I was flabbergasted. I would never, never, never had done this with my kids.
So I guess it boils down to the kid and to the parents' expectations as to their behavior. I think in some cultures kids tend to go wild, in others kids tend to be more socialized even at an early age.
Jun 3, 2000 | 10:29 am
#79
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: USA
Programs: AA - Hilton
Posts: 1,103
Excellent thread and time for me to weigh in on the topic.
Most children are a direct reflection of their parents. My daughter was taught that poor behavior in any section of the aircraft would not be appropriate. That was followed with the idea that a seat in 1st is a privelege and that doing anything to jeopardize that was ill advised. A simple, but time-honored concept that works well off of the aircraft, too.
She has flown predominantly in 1st (lucky child) and has never been a problem. Her first forray into the front cabin was at age 5.
My experience has been that bad behavior is the exception rather than the rule. Depending on the duration of the flight, I would have no problem with asking an FA to intervene. If that failed, I would politely ask the parents if they might try harder.
It is difficult to ever blame the child. You can't help being a child, and if you are you are only along for the ride.
Enjoyed all of your thoughts. Thanks!
Most children are a direct reflection of their parents. My daughter was taught that poor behavior in any section of the aircraft would not be appropriate. That was followed with the idea that a seat in 1st is a privelege and that doing anything to jeopardize that was ill advised. A simple, but time-honored concept that works well off of the aircraft, too.
She has flown predominantly in 1st (lucky child) and has never been a problem. Her first forray into the front cabin was at age 5.
My experience has been that bad behavior is the exception rather than the rule. Depending on the duration of the flight, I would have no problem with asking an FA to intervene. If that failed, I would politely ask the parents if they might try harder.
It is difficult to ever blame the child. You can't help being a child, and if you are you are only along for the ride.
Enjoyed all of your thoughts. Thanks!
Jun 3, 2000 | 10:00 pm
#80
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE (OMA or LNK)
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Well, this thread has sure generated a lot of activity. What always amazes me is that whenever the subject of children comes up the number of people without them that have solutions and opinions far outweighs those that have little ones. I am not pointing fingers. I was once a single person, then a married person without children, that would fit the bill and could not understand why parents could not do this or do that.
Well, I now have two boys, ages 4 and 1 1/2. While my wife and I insist upon good behavior and proper manners, that does not mean that the boys always agree with us! In fact, my four year old loves to talk to people and ask them questions about what they do and he is very inquisitive. I tread lightly when it comes to monitoring his questions to seat mates because I don't want to stifle his little personality and MOST people don't mind. We like to travel with the boys in first because of the extra room to handle the "free" passenger. Next year when they are both on their own ticket, we'll see if that changes.
I agree that an unruly or obnoxious seat mate is no picnic and a fidgety child is certainly better than the woman with too much perfume on or the fat guy that keeps complaining about everything. Kids have their good and bad days, just like you and I. Sometimes it is not possible to have both parents on the flight and that is when the FA needs to be a little more attentive to the situation. The FA is not a childcare provider, but one of the functions is to make the flight as comfortable as possible and that may include a little assistance.
A couple of years ago my wife went to a funeral and took our oldest (and, at the time, only)son. I was not able to go. My wife, who was pregnant at the time, is not an elite flyer and when she requested the bulkhead seat she was told it was not available. After boarding and seeing people in the bulkhead seats without special situations, she asked the FA if she could get the people to switch seats with her, to which the FA said it was my wife's responsibility to do that. Great service to a pregnant lady with a two year old going to the funeral of her mother's sister.
As for Chucky Cheese's, we had the older sons party there last Sunday and the kids THOROUGHLY enjoyed it as long as dad and mom kept slipping them tokens! No different than mom and dad enjoying a night of partying at our favorite fun spots! Happy flying!!!
Well, I now have two boys, ages 4 and 1 1/2. While my wife and I insist upon good behavior and proper manners, that does not mean that the boys always agree with us! In fact, my four year old loves to talk to people and ask them questions about what they do and he is very inquisitive. I tread lightly when it comes to monitoring his questions to seat mates because I don't want to stifle his little personality and MOST people don't mind. We like to travel with the boys in first because of the extra room to handle the "free" passenger. Next year when they are both on their own ticket, we'll see if that changes.
I agree that an unruly or obnoxious seat mate is no picnic and a fidgety child is certainly better than the woman with too much perfume on or the fat guy that keeps complaining about everything. Kids have their good and bad days, just like you and I. Sometimes it is not possible to have both parents on the flight and that is when the FA needs to be a little more attentive to the situation. The FA is not a childcare provider, but one of the functions is to make the flight as comfortable as possible and that may include a little assistance.
A couple of years ago my wife went to a funeral and took our oldest (and, at the time, only)son. I was not able to go. My wife, who was pregnant at the time, is not an elite flyer and when she requested the bulkhead seat she was told it was not available. After boarding and seeing people in the bulkhead seats without special situations, she asked the FA if she could get the people to switch seats with her, to which the FA said it was my wife's responsibility to do that. Great service to a pregnant lady with a two year old going to the funeral of her mother's sister.
As for Chucky Cheese's, we had the older sons party there last Sunday and the kids THOROUGHLY enjoyed it as long as dad and mom kept slipping them tokens! No different than mom and dad enjoying a night of partying at our favorite fun spots! Happy flying!!!
Jun 4, 2000 | 3:16 am
#81
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: STL, MO, USA;BCN, Spain;LGW, UK
Posts: 840
I certainly hope that someone moved for your wife Spartacus. Terrible service by the FA either way.
Saw this on the BA site, should help things a bit for those with infants and very small toddlers.
Globetrotting tots discover world can be flat
We are in the process of introducing another new flat bed, but this time it's for babies, in the shape of a new luxury carry-cot. Babies will now be able to fly completely flat in the carry-cots, which are securely attached to bulkheads in the aircraft. This new initiative follows the introduction of the first fully flat bed for adults on all Club World longhaul services.
Saw this on the BA site, should help things a bit for those with infants and very small toddlers.
Globetrotting tots discover world can be flat
We are in the process of introducing another new flat bed, but this time it's for babies, in the shape of a new luxury carry-cot. Babies will now be able to fly completely flat in the carry-cots, which are securely attached to bulkheads in the aircraft. This new initiative follows the introduction of the first fully flat bed for adults on all Club World longhaul services.
Jun 4, 2000 | 10:38 am
#82
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 528
Flying with small children is very difficult and every parent, I'm sure, boards a flight with their fingers crossed and their eyes raised to heaven that their children will make them proud on the journey.
Here are a few pointers from a veteran crew member. Most airlines carry a children's amenity kit that will contain colouring, sticker, comic or activity books. Never hesitate to ask for one if it is not offered shortly after take-off. These amenities go a long way in keeping the child occupied, at least for a while.
If you are on an aircraft without change tables, ask the fa if you can use the floor in the door area which is often behind a bulkhead and adjacent to a galley. Use a couple of airline blankets to pad the floor (and for sanitation). This has been done often on my flights and it works best for everyone on board. Most crew members are parents too and should be accommadating. Normally, aircraft without change tables are smaller Boeing, regional jets and small MD's. You will be better prepared if you are aware of the aircraft type.
As far as keeping children amused, I often see how difficult that can be with active children that are not used to staying in one place for a long time. Even the best parents have children like this. As crew, here are a few tricks that have helped and given the parents a break and the other travellers a more comfortable flight. Our most popular "toy" is the homemade rattle. We take two plastic glasses, place 5 - 10 hard candies in one and tape the two together, lip to lip. It's new, colourful and has treats in it! This simple gesture has kept kids busy for hours and is not noisy.
Ask the child to draw a picture just for the pilot or crew so that they will remember the flight you and your child were on. For validity get the fa to make this request of the child. eg. "The Captain has asked if you would draw him/she a picture so that he/she can remember you and this flight". We have pictures hanging up all over our crew room from these "artists".
For a child that just can't stay seated, we put them to work. We give them snacks packets, napkins, headsets, brouchures or something easy to hand out to everyone. They love the responsibility and the other travellers think it is cute. Because they participated, I've found many children tend to be more eager to please for the rest of the flight and behave better overall. I suspect all crew members won't go that far but plant the idea in their mind; ask if there is something the child can "help with".
Taking them for a walk to meet other kids was a great suggestions made already. As was pointed out, babysitting services are not part of the ticket purchase but crew will (in most cases) assist in any way to make the flight more enjoyable for all. With free time (outside of meal services) I've taken many a child on a "tour" and often into the cockpit as well but then, rules for flight deck visits are more lax in Canada.
Any more tips out there?
Here are a few pointers from a veteran crew member. Most airlines carry a children's amenity kit that will contain colouring, sticker, comic or activity books. Never hesitate to ask for one if it is not offered shortly after take-off. These amenities go a long way in keeping the child occupied, at least for a while.
If you are on an aircraft without change tables, ask the fa if you can use the floor in the door area which is often behind a bulkhead and adjacent to a galley. Use a couple of airline blankets to pad the floor (and for sanitation). This has been done often on my flights and it works best for everyone on board. Most crew members are parents too and should be accommadating. Normally, aircraft without change tables are smaller Boeing, regional jets and small MD's. You will be better prepared if you are aware of the aircraft type.
As far as keeping children amused, I often see how difficult that can be with active children that are not used to staying in one place for a long time. Even the best parents have children like this. As crew, here are a few tricks that have helped and given the parents a break and the other travellers a more comfortable flight. Our most popular "toy" is the homemade rattle. We take two plastic glasses, place 5 - 10 hard candies in one and tape the two together, lip to lip. It's new, colourful and has treats in it! This simple gesture has kept kids busy for hours and is not noisy.
Ask the child to draw a picture just for the pilot or crew so that they will remember the flight you and your child were on. For validity get the fa to make this request of the child. eg. "The Captain has asked if you would draw him/she a picture so that he/she can remember you and this flight". We have pictures hanging up all over our crew room from these "artists".
For a child that just can't stay seated, we put them to work. We give them snacks packets, napkins, headsets, brouchures or something easy to hand out to everyone. They love the responsibility and the other travellers think it is cute. Because they participated, I've found many children tend to be more eager to please for the rest of the flight and behave better overall. I suspect all crew members won't go that far but plant the idea in their mind; ask if there is something the child can "help with".
Taking them for a walk to meet other kids was a great suggestions made already. As was pointed out, babysitting services are not part of the ticket purchase but crew will (in most cases) assist in any way to make the flight more enjoyable for all. With free time (outside of meal services) I've taken many a child on a "tour" and often into the cockpit as well but then, rules for flight deck visits are more lax in Canada.
Any more tips out there?
Jun 4, 2000 | 10:57 am
#83
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: STL, MO, USA;BCN, Spain;LGW, UK
Posts: 840
Excellent post Flygirl!
Thanks for your many helpful suggestions and thanks to others who have made good suggestions in the thread too. I feel much more confident now about my upcoming travel with my young child.
Thanks for your many helpful suggestions and thanks to others who have made good suggestions in the thread too. I feel much more confident now about my upcoming travel with my young child.
Jun 4, 2000 | 10:58 pm
#84
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE (OMA or LNK)
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Posts: 1,345
This turned out to be an EXCELLENT thread and I have saved all of your recommendations into a nice word file for future travel!
Thanks, Flygirl, for your insights. It is always great to get the view from the inside on topics like this!
I hope that other airlines follow the lead of BA. Mvic, great "find!" ThanxaBunch!
Thanks, Flygirl, for your insights. It is always great to get the view from the inside on topics like this!
I hope that other airlines follow the lead of BA. Mvic, great "find!" ThanxaBunch!
Jun 5, 2000 | 10:20 pm
#85
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: St. Thomas, Virgin Islands
Posts: 9
I have 4 kids all Gold AA members....they behave...they know how to behave and that part of life...respect each other and be polite...do unto others..right?..if its a long flight or i know they want to chat alot..we sit in coach...I'm a mom and Ive dragged these kids around the world and I can't stand rude kids or rude passengers...it can ruin the entire trip....Babies are tough...but you get up... walk up and down the aisle or spend a lot of time in the bathroom...and apologize to passengers let them know that you are making an effort to control your child....If you have no control or don't get up off your butt...then don't bring the children...or all of you stay home and take the bus...also the business clientele in first that flirt and get drunk drive me more nuts...Also the FA's in first as well as coach need to have manners also...I think if FA's could work for tips...maybe we might see a bit of a difference..they are really getting worse with their attitudes....children can be polite and well mannered if their parents are or have taught them how to be polite...Some Fa's just want that rich single male or female to flirt with and totally ignore the adult and child with more manners and money than the idiot business executive...Im sorry i just have had it with all the rudeness on the airlines..its dog eat dog...all the way down to stuffing those bags in the overhead...landing on peoples heads...disgusting airline food...we have all become a just a big heard of cattle...so i need my own plane...maybe i can get another Cathay flight with all of Oasis totally drunk..that was fun!! and then maybe I'll be famous and can act like an idiot in first class and it'll be cool...someday....I'll get that lear jet and then I can bring my cats, dogs, horses and kids...
amen
One little girl told her mother "I guess that man was never taught manners!"
*Showing the plane is a great way to keep the kids quiet. (It's also for the older kids like one 33 yr old from Jerzee!) Also: give them wings! They'll think they're special.
OF course I am not an expert, no children, just "single with cats" (although when I had to fly once with both cats in First they were better behaved than the snobby, pompous big man in the designer suit who spent the whole flight complaining about everything from his ex-wife to the F-A's to me having cats. "It's very bad to let animals on the plane" I was tempted to introduce him to EDDIE.
I paid extra for the cats to go on the plane but the F-A's complemented that the cats could teach the humans manners.
OMNI FOR RUDI: I hope you become a grandfather someday and I know you will make a great one! WIth happy, well-manner grandchildren who will teach adults how to act in a plane!
[/B][/QUOTE]
amen
One little girl told her mother "I guess that man was never taught manners!"
*Showing the plane is a great way to keep the kids quiet. (It's also for the older kids like one 33 yr old from Jerzee!) Also: give them wings! They'll think they're special.
OF course I am not an expert, no children, just "single with cats" (although when I had to fly once with both cats in First they were better behaved than the snobby, pompous big man in the designer suit who spent the whole flight complaining about everything from his ex-wife to the F-A's to me having cats. "It's very bad to let animals on the plane" I was tempted to introduce him to EDDIE.
I paid extra for the cats to go on the plane but the F-A's complemented that the cats could teach the humans manners.
OMNI FOR RUDI: I hope you become a grandfather someday and I know you will make a great one! WIth happy, well-manner grandchildren who will teach adults how to act in a plane!
[/B][/QUOTE]
Jun 5, 2000 | 10:37 pm
#86
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: St. Thomas, Virgin Islands
Posts: 9
Originally posted by dhacker:
I couldn't agree more..hear hear...!!lets all torture each other some more!
First you check your crystal ball to see if your infant and toddler are going to sleep or fuss on the plane. Then, with that accurate forcast in hand, you make your first class reservations. Then "If unexpected crying occurs we address the situation including walking to the back of the plane or going into the restroom until they calm down".
So you make the poor lowly coach class slobs deal with your out-of-control children so the fine ladies and gentlemen of the elite class don't look down their noses at you.
I would suggest that the first class passengers (most of whom haven't paid extra but are simply very frequent flyers or airline employees or their families) are the most logical people on the plane to be forced to endure a little crying or screaming fit from an unruly child. At least they are comfortable and well-fed. Being shoe-horned into coach class seats is a miserable enough experience without the addition of crying first class brats to the equation.
Maybe I'll take my own darling children for a little walk up front the next time they act up on a plane!
[/B]
I couldn't agree more..hear hear...!!lets all torture each other some more!
First you check your crystal ball to see if your infant and toddler are going to sleep or fuss on the plane. Then, with that accurate forcast in hand, you make your first class reservations. Then "If unexpected crying occurs we address the situation including walking to the back of the plane or going into the restroom until they calm down".
So you make the poor lowly coach class slobs deal with your out-of-control children so the fine ladies and gentlemen of the elite class don't look down their noses at you.
I would suggest that the first class passengers (most of whom haven't paid extra but are simply very frequent flyers or airline employees or their families) are the most logical people on the plane to be forced to endure a little crying or screaming fit from an unruly child. At least they are comfortable and well-fed. Being shoe-horned into coach class seats is a miserable enough experience without the addition of crying first class brats to the equation.
Maybe I'll take my own darling children for a little walk up front the next time they act up on a plane!
[/B]
Jun 6, 2000 | 7:14 am
#87
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Programs: AA LT EXP, Marriott LT Titanium Elite, DL PLat
Posts: 3,404
What a great thread......
We just completed SJC-NRT with our 2 year old in C. We followed a lot of the tips here and they worked like a charm. Out of the 10.5 hours only the last hour was stressful. The FA's were great which makes a difference. I don't know if it's been mentioned here but bulkhead is key, especially on the 777. No seat backs to pull on! We took a bunch of DVD's for my lap top Good thing as AA entertainment is pretty bad on these flights. There was only really 1 channel for little kids and it wasn't working so after watching I love Lucy, out came the DVD's. Walking the cabin and finding other kids also is great. It helps you out and the other parents. My 2 year old played with a Japanese girl for a hour or so, keeping both content even with the language barrier. New toys, new books are also good ideas.
Well, we're heading back this Friday so our fingers are crossed!
BTW - the kids hamburger meal in C is far better than the adult selections.
We just completed SJC-NRT with our 2 year old in C. We followed a lot of the tips here and they worked like a charm. Out of the 10.5 hours only the last hour was stressful. The FA's were great which makes a difference. I don't know if it's been mentioned here but bulkhead is key, especially on the 777. No seat backs to pull on! We took a bunch of DVD's for my lap top Good thing as AA entertainment is pretty bad on these flights. There was only really 1 channel for little kids and it wasn't working so after watching I love Lucy, out came the DVD's. Walking the cabin and finding other kids also is great. It helps you out and the other parents. My 2 year old played with a Japanese girl for a hour or so, keeping both content even with the language barrier. New toys, new books are also good ideas.
Well, we're heading back this Friday so our fingers are crossed!
BTW - the kids hamburger meal in C is far better than the adult selections.
Jun 6, 2000 | 10:29 am
#88
Senior Moderator; Moderator, Flyertalk Cares
Join Date: Jun 1999
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One more tip to add to Flygirl's suggestions ...
Add crayons to those nifty little bags you find in the seat pockets in front of you and you have great puppets.
Add crayons to those nifty little bags you find in the seat pockets in front of you and you have great puppets.
Jun 8, 2000 | 12:36 am
#90
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: STL, MO, USA;BCN, Spain;LGW, UK
Posts: 840
For those with children, just thought you might like to know that click rewards is offering double miles on purchases made at smarterkids.com. Smarterkids.com is offering 25% off order total until Friday. Only downside is that many of the most popular items are sold out already.