Travelling with Children in First Class
May 26, 2000 | 11:38 pm
#61
Join Date: May 2000
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1
What a timely topic now that summer is just about here.
This reminds me of a flight we took from SFO to LHR 20 years ago. A father literally walked his 2 year old to London. Not a peep was heard out of this dear child.
This reminds me of a flight we took from SFO to LHR 20 years ago. A father literally walked his 2 year old to London. Not a peep was heard out of this dear child.
May 27, 2000 | 7:12 am
#62
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: alexandria, Virginia usa
Posts: 1,102
I must offer my opinion now. I have travelled with all my children since they were infants. As a considerate human being, I recognized that air travel puts individuals in closer proximity to strangers for a potentially longer peroid of time than almost any other situation, and I acted accordingly. I was willing to pace the aircraft to soothe a crying baby and brought toys and snacks and I taught my older toddlers good airplane behavior which included not kicking seatbacks or playing with tray tables. On the rare occasions that my child was temporarily inconsolable, those FAs or passengers around me, who had observed my responsible behavior, often offered to help to distract, hold or play with my child.
Coach pax do not deserve an unpleasant flight anymore than First class pax deserve a flight free from Life. The problem is irresponsible parents. I was recently seated in coach from SFO-IAD and there were 3 children sitting behind me- their parents were several rows back and completely ingnoring their children who were jumping on the seats, not buckled and kicking the seats etc. I constantly turned to ask the kids to stop- but they ignored me and the FA. I finally interrupted the parents who were annoyed by my intrusion. There is no accounting for the irresposiblility of some parents. Regarding kids in First Class, age discrimination is against the law, so banning kids wont fly, so to speak.
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Coach pax do not deserve an unpleasant flight anymore than First class pax deserve a flight free from Life. The problem is irresponsible parents. I was recently seated in coach from SFO-IAD and there were 3 children sitting behind me- their parents were several rows back and completely ingnoring their children who were jumping on the seats, not buckled and kicking the seats etc. I constantly turned to ask the kids to stop- but they ignored me and the FA. I finally interrupted the parents who were annoyed by my intrusion. There is no accounting for the irresposiblility of some parents. Regarding kids in First Class, age discrimination is against the law, so banning kids wont fly, so to speak.
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May 28, 2000 | 12:49 pm
#63
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: T82
Programs: AA Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 2,845
And then there are the teenagers.....
A couple of years ago I sat next to a boy who looked way under 21 on a flight from LAS to SJC. The whole way back he kept moaning and groaning and I was sure he would throw up on me any minute.
PremEx: I agree with Catman--how about writing a book, or at least an article for the inflight magazines. Perhaps they will print it in every issue for a year.
A couple of years ago I sat next to a boy who looked way under 21 on a flight from LAS to SJC. The whole way back he kept moaning and groaning and I was sure he would throw up on me any minute.
PremEx: I agree with Catman--how about writing a book, or at least an article for the inflight magazines. Perhaps they will print it in every issue for a year.
May 28, 2000 | 6:25 pm
#64
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Monkeyville
Programs: Island DOs, very sticky toffee pud w vanilla ice cream n multi-coloured velvet pillows enthusiast
Posts: 4,647
i agree, there should be a handout of tips to all the parents included in their tkts while flying with children....
(have u ever noticed some parents r actually afraid of their kids?)
and should not be limited to only first class....
also, PLEASE let the bratty kids and their parents STAY in whatever class they r in... THANK YOU
(have u ever noticed some parents r actually afraid of their kids?)
and should not be limited to only first class....
also, PLEASE let the bratty kids and their parents STAY in whatever class they r in... THANK YOU
May 28, 2000 | 9:15 pm
#65
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 351
After reading all of the posts, I had to also put in my two cents There were alot of good points made by everyone and the ultimate responsibility is that of the parents which there seems to be a concensus on however, I disagree with the idea of bringing a misbehaved or disruptive child into coach. It doesn't solve the problem but merely transfers it to others. On a flight from ORD-CDG there was a child that was in coach, about 3 yrs old, the parent walked the child around and was great. From JFK to Heathrow, there was an obnoxious child now should the coach passengers send this child to FC? No, and neither should FC send their problems to coach. When I fly FC its for the comfort on long flights and if there is a disruptive child I just deal with it. At least FC has some additional level of comfort and it is public transportation. The airlines need to deal with children traveling along with the parents, not the other passengers (either in FC or CC).
There were alot of good points made by everyone and the ultimate responsibility is that of the parents which there seems to be a concensus on however, I disagree with the idea of bringing a misbehaved or disruptive child into coach. It doesn't solve the problem but merely transfers it to others. On a flight from ORD-CDG there was a child that was in coach, about 3 yrs old, the parent walked the child around and was great. From JFK to Heathrow, there was an obnoxious child now should the coach passengers send this child to FC? No, and neither should FC send their problems to coach. When I fly FC its for the comfort on long flights and if there is a disruptive child I just deal with it. At least FC has some additional level of comfort and it is public transportation. The airlines need to deal with children traveling along with the parents, not the other passengers (either in FC or CC).
May 29, 2000 | 8:32 pm
#66
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
Speaking as someone with three little ones (5, 3 and 2 in Aug), I sympathize with parents. Who as parents have NOT had a child act up in public?
However there is a difference between a child speaking up in church and running amok in an airplane.
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "A parent's got to know his children's limitations."
For example, my kids:
Caitlin can be amused for hours with a couple of books, a coloring book, blank paper and crayons. When she gets fidgety, give her a cup of soda and a snack, she's all set for a while.
Victoria can be amused for about 30 minutes this way. If you hope to keep her entertained, she needs adult interaction. She'll talk your ear off, but will be pleasant. You'd better have PLENTY of fluids - she drinks 21 oz. of Cranberry Juice within an hour of waking up each day. And if you bring a snack - be prepared to give her "more, please" for the next hour or two.
Patrick. He's all-boy. Nothing within his grasp goes ungrabbed-for. Heaven help you if you take something away. He cannot be bribed with food, engaged with conversation or entertained with toys for very long. Sit still? Yeah... right...
So airflight is simply not an option for us. It is simply too much work.
However even if Patrick were to stay at home, Caitlin's limit for being in one place is a few hours. Victoria's is much smaller. Transatlantic? You gotta be kidding!
So the "problem child" on your flight is more likely due to a parent overestimating his/her child's ability to cope with the situation.
However - there ARE situations where it is unavoidable. I sat near new-parents who were adopting a child from overseas. Needless to say, it was the child's first flight and he was scared witless. Poor parents were probably even more scared. I bought them some momentary peace with breakfast bars, but I was only on the last (domestic) leg of their trip. I pity what they and their fellow passengers went through on the transatlantic flight!
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
However there is a difference between a child speaking up in church and running amok in an airplane.
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "A parent's got to know his children's limitations."
For example, my kids:
Caitlin can be amused for hours with a couple of books, a coloring book, blank paper and crayons. When she gets fidgety, give her a cup of soda and a snack, she's all set for a while.
Victoria can be amused for about 30 minutes this way. If you hope to keep her entertained, she needs adult interaction. She'll talk your ear off, but will be pleasant. You'd better have PLENTY of fluids - she drinks 21 oz. of Cranberry Juice within an hour of waking up each day. And if you bring a snack - be prepared to give her "more, please" for the next hour or two.
Patrick. He's all-boy. Nothing within his grasp goes ungrabbed-for. Heaven help you if you take something away. He cannot be bribed with food, engaged with conversation or entertained with toys for very long. Sit still? Yeah... right...
So airflight is simply not an option for us. It is simply too much work.
However even if Patrick were to stay at home, Caitlin's limit for being in one place is a few hours. Victoria's is much smaller. Transatlantic? You gotta be kidding!
So the "problem child" on your flight is more likely due to a parent overestimating his/her child's ability to cope with the situation.
However - there ARE situations where it is unavoidable. I sat near new-parents who were adopting a child from overseas. Needless to say, it was the child's first flight and he was scared witless. Poor parents were probably even more scared. I bought them some momentary peace with breakfast bars, but I was only on the last (domestic) leg of their trip. I pity what they and their fellow passengers went through on the transatlantic flight!
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
May 30, 2000 | 12:40 pm
#67
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New York NY
Posts: 134
Sorry I somehow missed all this...
I am a pompous arrogant snob and having been a child know them to be evil scheming creatures usally travelling with overworked stressed out parents who are innocent of the horror about to be unleashed by angelic little Pandora and Lucifer Jr., oh the agony. First class should be reserved for loud cellphone talking executives, drunken entertainment celebs, and United Airlines employees. Fortunately I am also a shallow world class social climber and can bum rides off of people with private jets and need not suffer the indignity of sitting next to someone (aka: the public) who has never read Wallpaper magazine or thinks Prada is a town in the Czech Republic.
MG
I am a pompous arrogant snob and having been a child know them to be evil scheming creatures usally travelling with overworked stressed out parents who are innocent of the horror about to be unleashed by angelic little Pandora and Lucifer Jr., oh the agony. First class should be reserved for loud cellphone talking executives, drunken entertainment celebs, and United Airlines employees. Fortunately I am also a shallow world class social climber and can bum rides off of people with private jets and need not suffer the indignity of sitting next to someone (aka: the public) who has never read Wallpaper magazine or thinks Prada is a town in the Czech Republic.
MG
May 30, 2000 | 1:23 pm
#68
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: California
Posts: 2,164
I have such a different view of this situation since having kids...
Before I had them, if I saw kids acting up, whining, were uncontrollable, etc., I would think "what brats!" Now that I'm a parent (of very well-behaved kids that I'm proud to say would fit into first class just fine!) I am much more likely to observe the parent-child interaction, and most of the time the parent is the problem. I don't know how many times I've seen bored, tired kids crying while the parent drags them through the packed mall at Christmas time ("can't you walk any faster?"), or sitting in a shopping cart without a single book, toy, or anything else brought along for them to do, while the parent expects them to sit quietly while they go about their shopping, repeatedly reminding them if they don't "stop that behavior you'll get a spanking" or similar threat. There are so many missed opportunities for the parents to not only occupy the kids (and keep those around them happy) but also educate them (we've played counting games, I-spy something a certain color and had them guess, mapping the flight's progress, and so on). But the kids have to be raised with not only discipline, but kindness, attention and respect. Now that ours are a bit older they're going to be taking their first transatlantic flight, and though it's a long one and we don't know how restless they might get, they certainly won't be kicking seatbacks, running loose down the aisles, or throwing yucky airplane food at each other -- they haven't been brought up that way. Just had to vent!
Before I had them, if I saw kids acting up, whining, were uncontrollable, etc., I would think "what brats!" Now that I'm a parent (of very well-behaved kids that I'm proud to say would fit into first class just fine!) I am much more likely to observe the parent-child interaction, and most of the time the parent is the problem. I don't know how many times I've seen bored, tired kids crying while the parent drags them through the packed mall at Christmas time ("can't you walk any faster?"), or sitting in a shopping cart without a single book, toy, or anything else brought along for them to do, while the parent expects them to sit quietly while they go about their shopping, repeatedly reminding them if they don't "stop that behavior you'll get a spanking" or similar threat. There are so many missed opportunities for the parents to not only occupy the kids (and keep those around them happy) but also educate them (we've played counting games, I-spy something a certain color and had them guess, mapping the flight's progress, and so on). But the kids have to be raised with not only discipline, but kindness, attention and respect. Now that ours are a bit older they're going to be taking their first transatlantic flight, and though it's a long one and we don't know how restless they might get, they certainly won't be kicking seatbacks, running loose down the aisles, or throwing yucky airplane food at each other -- they haven't been brought up that way. Just had to vent!
May 30, 2000 | 1:49 pm
#69
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago Illinois
Programs: 1MM UA
Posts: 1,753
I agree with SPort. There is as much variety in children as there is in adults. We took our children RTW when they were 4 and 9. The only problem was Frankfurt to Bombay, when they put us in the last row of the non-smoking section. In retrospect, I know of no way the fuss we made could have been avoided.
May 30, 2000 | 10:10 pm
#70
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Athens, Alabama, USA
Posts: 569
As Jon Toner pointed out there are many reasons that it's necessary to travel with children. Having been in the Army, and an Army wife, much of our travel has been connected with major life changes. That over excited child may be preparing to see his mother or father for the first time in a year. The seemingly uncaring parent may be exhausted from having completed a move where every step of the process was a fight and struggle. Too many times we look at externals and have no concept of what has led people to the point they are at.
The gate agents often exacerbate the problem. During one of our moves we were upgraded to first class. At that time our oldest son was three. We were told that my husband would be stitting three rows away. Fine, no problem. After boarding I found that another woman and I had been assigned the same seat. During a layover in Dallas we approached the gate agent about the mix up. The agent snatched (literally) my boarding pass out of my hand and reassigned me to a seat two rows away on the other side of the plane. In effect a three year old was now sitting alone. Fortunately the FAs diplomatically handled the situation and asked passengers to shift for us. By that time our entire family was stressed by the whole process. We became the bothersome family in FC that made people move around.
The gate agents often exacerbate the problem. During one of our moves we were upgraded to first class. At that time our oldest son was three. We were told that my husband would be stitting three rows away. Fine, no problem. After boarding I found that another woman and I had been assigned the same seat. During a layover in Dallas we approached the gate agent about the mix up. The agent snatched (literally) my boarding pass out of my hand and reassigned me to a seat two rows away on the other side of the plane. In effect a three year old was now sitting alone. Fortunately the FAs diplomatically handled the situation and asked passengers to shift for us. By that time our entire family was stressed by the whole process. We became the bothersome family in FC that made people move around.
May 31, 2000 | 4:17 pm
#72
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 340
Nor are you allowed two lap children on one side of the isle as there is only 1 extra oxygen mask per "group". I found this out over the weekend flying from SJC to DFW on AA in FC where a couple had 4 month old twins. They had to split the parents either side of the isle. They changed diapers (no changing stations) and there were to FA's sitting in FC who pretty much entertained the babies the whole flight ... lucky parents.
[This message has been edited by Travelcrazy (edited 05-31-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Travelcrazy (edited 05-31-2000).]
May 31, 2000 | 4:47 pm
#73
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Tokyo; UA PE, CO Gold
Posts: 56
Inconsiderable parents with infants can not only be source of trouble on board, but can cause greater problems.
A few years ago, I was on a DEN-MSP-PHL flight (NW Airbus 320). A woman with an infant was in the cabin in the DEN-MSP segment, and got off at MSP. After a break at MSP, shortly before we were due to reboard the aircraft for PHL, we learned that the aircraft couldn't take-off because the toilets were clogged with a diaper. After the then-usual NW stuff (we can't find the mechanic to fix it because he went home, blah, blah, blah...) we ended up delayed for 2 hours.
A few years ago, I was on a DEN-MSP-PHL flight (NW Airbus 320). A woman with an infant was in the cabin in the DEN-MSP segment, and got off at MSP. After a break at MSP, shortly before we were due to reboard the aircraft for PHL, we learned that the aircraft couldn't take-off because the toilets were clogged with a diaper. After the then-usual NW stuff (we can't find the mechanic to fix it because he went home, blah, blah, blah...) we ended up delayed for 2 hours.
May 31, 2000 | 6:10 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,867
We have spent numerous flights mostly in business class with our now 5 year old son without any major inconveniences.
Three things we observe(d):
- bring at least one NEW toy and one NEW book for each flight segment, NEW outbound and inbound
- bring the childs favorite food and drink for snacks
- if he gets cranky take a walk, interact with other children, keep him busy until he gets sleepy
Our (his) favorite flight experience was a UA flight HKG-SIN at age 1. In SIN the little one got off with a really red face: from lipstick of the (Asian) FAs who played, carried, hugged and exchanged cheek kisses with him for a good part of the flight.
Three things we observe(d):
- bring at least one NEW toy and one NEW book for each flight segment, NEW outbound and inbound
- bring the childs favorite food and drink for snacks
- if he gets cranky take a walk, interact with other children, keep him busy until he gets sleepy
Our (his) favorite flight experience was a UA flight HKG-SIN at age 1. In SIN the little one got off with a really red face: from lipstick of the (Asian) FAs who played, carried, hugged and exchanged cheek kisses with him for a good part of the flight.