Travelling with Children in First Class
Mar 7, 1999 | 5:31 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
I've been thinking about if I should post here or not for a couple of days. I have finally decided that it would be best if I posted now whilst sober, than later when I have had a drink, and am much more direct:
I don't differentiate between children in different classes of service - what we are talking about is good manners, and good manners are the same wherever you are seated.
I don't have a problem with children having a tantrum or whatever, AS LONG AS their parents are trying to address the situation. Every (well adjusted) child gets cranky on long journeys - I get cranky on long journeys - an d I expect and accept a modicum of annoyance at childrens antics.
What I don't expect is parents to do nothing when a child is cleary misbehaving.
As long as the parents try their best, that is good enough for me.
I think this is an issue that will always exist, and my view on the best way to deal with it is not to let it get to you.
I have in the past (and probably will again) got very annoyed when a child is seated near me, and I have got myself in such a state that I have been almost willing the child to misbehave in order that I have something to complain about [that is as honest as I can be on this subject].
My advice: chill out!
If it gets really bad, mention it to the parents not the Steward/ess [we can still call them that in the UK]. Most times that shockes them into action, if not the Father hits you! (unless it's a Moscow flight - then the Mother hits you) Either way it takes the child of your mind.
MF
PS: My advice to parents, buy your child a non-slip tray mat. It stops their Ronald McDonald Happy Meal figurine/Crayons/Pencils/Beaker etc rolling around the cabin floor a treat.
I don't differentiate between children in different classes of service - what we are talking about is good manners, and good manners are the same wherever you are seated.
I don't have a problem with children having a tantrum or whatever, AS LONG AS their parents are trying to address the situation. Every (well adjusted) child gets cranky on long journeys - I get cranky on long journeys - an d I expect and accept a modicum of annoyance at childrens antics.
What I don't expect is parents to do nothing when a child is cleary misbehaving.
As long as the parents try their best, that is good enough for me.
I think this is an issue that will always exist, and my view on the best way to deal with it is not to let it get to you.
I have in the past (and probably will again) got very annoyed when a child is seated near me, and I have got myself in such a state that I have been almost willing the child to misbehave in order that I have something to complain about [that is as honest as I can be on this subject].
My advice: chill out!
If it gets really bad, mention it to the parents not the Steward/ess [we can still call them that in the UK]. Most times that shockes them into action, if not the Father hits you! (unless it's a Moscow flight - then the Mother hits you) Either way it takes the child of your mind.
MF
PS: My advice to parents, buy your child a non-slip tray mat. It stops their Ronald McDonald Happy Meal figurine/Crayons/Pencils/Beaker etc rolling around the cabin floor a treat.
Mar 7, 1999 | 12:01 pm
#17
Commander Catcop
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 10,259
If it hasn't been done already, maybe someone (like PremEx or Mileage Addict) should write a book on flying with children on airplanes. Maybe it was done (remember I am single with cats, no kids in my immediate future!) 
Mileage Addict: I think what may happen with your son is NOT PLANE PROBLEMS BUT the opposite: your love of planes may pass on to him, and he'll be designing aircraft to outer space when he's a little older!
OMNI for TIM: Chuck-E-Cheese is nationwide. I went to a party there for the son of two of my friends. It's generally not for anyone over 10.
We need a version for the grown up flyers like ourselves!
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CATMAN
Mileage Addict: I think what may happen with your son is NOT PLANE PROBLEMS BUT the opposite: your love of planes may pass on to him, and he'll be designing aircraft to outer space when he's a little older!
OMNI for TIM: Chuck-E-Cheese is nationwide. I went to a party there for the son of two of my friends. It's generally not for anyone over 10.
We need a version for the grown up flyers like ourselves!
------------------
CATMAN
Mar 7, 1999 | 1:14 pm
#18
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CNF/LAX/HKG/PVG
Programs: AA EXP, Lifetime PLT, Silver EK Skywards
Posts: 748
Catman: Hmm. That's right! I took my 2 year old niece to a Chuck-E-Cheese in Maryland once. Almost forgot. I guess it's it because i lived right across one and the image stuck to my mind.
Mar 7, 1999 | 3:10 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: CLE, UA MM, UA Premier Plat, Bonvoy Titanium UA Club
Posts: 333
OH MY GOD, ARE ALL OF YOU POMPOUS ARROGANT SNOBS?????
I would bet my last American dollar that all of us were once CHILDREN!!! God bless the parents who can afford or have miles to have their childrens experience first class prior to making their way in this world! A crying child is no more annoying than a drunk in F/C or a chatty adult! Put those headsets on! Take your sleeping pills.....quit complaining!
Life is too short, nobody is that important that they need total quiet to enjoy the ride!
I would bet my last American dollar that all of us were once CHILDREN!!! God bless the parents who can afford or have miles to have their childrens experience first class prior to making their way in this world! A crying child is no more annoying than a drunk in F/C or a chatty adult! Put those headsets on! Take your sleeping pills.....quit complaining!
Life is too short, nobody is that important that they need total quiet to enjoy the ride!
Mar 7, 1999 | 6:28 pm
#22
Original Poster
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,673
Gee -- looks like I started a good conversation.
I am glad to see that most folk agree that it is the parent's responsibility. Like I said, I have lots of patience, but I think the paretns should have done something to quiet their child.
traveltoomuch -- I disagree with you. We are not pompus, arrogant snobs. As you comment, we were all children once and we should put up with it. I disagree with the fact that a 5-7 year old has the "right" to cry whenever s/he sees fit. I also find it disturbing when children dont use manners. We all know what good manners are and they should be used at all times.
I know when I was 5-7 years old it was the threat of a spanking that put me in line. Maybe we should have more of that, but that would probably get us all in trouble (kids suing parents). If it worked from the beginning of time, I dont see why it cant work now!
--Jim
I am glad to see that most folk agree that it is the parent's responsibility. Like I said, I have lots of patience, but I think the paretns should have done something to quiet their child.
traveltoomuch -- I disagree with you. We are not pompus, arrogant snobs. As you comment, we were all children once and we should put up with it. I disagree with the fact that a 5-7 year old has the "right" to cry whenever s/he sees fit. I also find it disturbing when children dont use manners. We all know what good manners are and they should be used at all times.
I know when I was 5-7 years old it was the threat of a spanking that put me in line. Maybe we should have more of that, but that would probably get us all in trouble (kids suing parents). If it worked from the beginning of time, I dont see why it cant work now!
--Jim
Mar 7, 1999 | 7:10 pm
#23
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: In protest of Flyertalk's uncalledfor censoring of my point of view, I cancelled my InsideFlyer subscription. So long, and thanks for everything.
Posts: 3,325
If you look way back to my trip report last December to WDW, I grappled with the same issues.
My kids, 2 and 4 at the time, are not the calmest to begin with. The first flight for both was a lot to take on.
In deciding about first class/not first class, my thoughts were:
1) they would not appreciate it
2) my wife and I would be busy entertaining them, and we would not appreciate it
3) I would not want to be subjected to kids like mine if I was in first class.
4) I can deal with coach on a 2.5 hr flight.
As it turned out, they were fine, and slept through most of the flights. (My youngest woke up 15 minutes before landing on the trip home, didn't understand what was going on in his ears, and cried the whole way. Crying, like yawning, opens cloged ears, so I held him but didn't try to stop him.)
Once they are older, and understand that they needed to behave differently, I would not hesitate to book them in FC. Just like they can eat fries off the table in McDonalds, but have to use a fork at a fancy restaurant, they would be taught the manners required of the situation.
But, kids are kids. And with the headphones and the drone of the engines, you probably can't hear much anyway, so lighten-up.
My kids, 2 and 4 at the time, are not the calmest to begin with. The first flight for both was a lot to take on.
In deciding about first class/not first class, my thoughts were:
1) they would not appreciate it
2) my wife and I would be busy entertaining them, and we would not appreciate it
3) I would not want to be subjected to kids like mine if I was in first class.
4) I can deal with coach on a 2.5 hr flight.
As it turned out, they were fine, and slept through most of the flights. (My youngest woke up 15 minutes before landing on the trip home, didn't understand what was going on in his ears, and cried the whole way. Crying, like yawning, opens cloged ears, so I held him but didn't try to stop him.)
Once they are older, and understand that they needed to behave differently, I would not hesitate to book them in FC. Just like they can eat fries off the table in McDonalds, but have to use a fork at a fancy restaurant, they would be taught the manners required of the situation.
But, kids are kids. And with the headphones and the drone of the engines, you probably can't hear much anyway, so lighten-up.
Mar 7, 1999 | 7:57 pm
#24
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: nyc, ny, usa
Posts: 364
Well here's my 2 cents worth.....
I absolutely believe it is the responsibility of the FA to maintain the environment of all cabins on an airplane. While there can be little done about a crying child, there can be plenty done about bad behaviours, and we all have the right to request a certain modicum of behaviour while we are flying.
Although I agree that adults can/are just as annoying in FC, their behaviours are controlled by societal values(i.e. threats of legal measures, etc). For instance, an adult that willfully throws food or drink on a fellow passenger would be appropriately dealt with (because they supposedly understand the ramifications...though sometimes I wonder).
In the case of a child doing the same act (which I have witnessed on different occasions) , the only control mechanism is their guardian. At the time of the act...be it repeated thumping on seats, screaming, bratty outbursts, etc, we all have the right to request the FA to step in. When an adult exhibits inappropriate behaviour, we have no trouble requesting assistance, right?
In other words...misbehaved children are the responsibility of their parents, and any problems should be directed to them. And in my eyes, this is one of the duties of the FA.
Now just to be clear....I have great admiration for parents that must fly with their children, and greater admiration for those that think out the process before they embark on this voyage. However, before booking your children into FC think about how enjoyable the trip will be for you and your children, the added stress of your fellow passenger's anger, and how you would feel if you were in the reverse position.
I absolutely believe it is the responsibility of the FA to maintain the environment of all cabins on an airplane. While there can be little done about a crying child, there can be plenty done about bad behaviours, and we all have the right to request a certain modicum of behaviour while we are flying.
Although I agree that adults can/are just as annoying in FC, their behaviours are controlled by societal values(i.e. threats of legal measures, etc). For instance, an adult that willfully throws food or drink on a fellow passenger would be appropriately dealt with (because they supposedly understand the ramifications...though sometimes I wonder).
In the case of a child doing the same act (which I have witnessed on different occasions) , the only control mechanism is their guardian. At the time of the act...be it repeated thumping on seats, screaming, bratty outbursts, etc, we all have the right to request the FA to step in. When an adult exhibits inappropriate behaviour, we have no trouble requesting assistance, right?
In other words...misbehaved children are the responsibility of their parents, and any problems should be directed to them. And in my eyes, this is one of the duties of the FA.
Now just to be clear....I have great admiration for parents that must fly with their children, and greater admiration for those that think out the process before they embark on this voyage. However, before booking your children into FC think about how enjoyable the trip will be for you and your children, the added stress of your fellow passenger's anger, and how you would feel if you were in the reverse position.
Mar 7, 1999 | 8:12 pm
#25
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: UA UGS 1K; US Chairman: AA Platinum: Marriott Platinum Premier; *wood Gold
Posts: 315
dhacker,
As you may have noticed, virtually all the other posts on this board express their opinions in a polite manner. It appears that you have a great deal of resentment toward those in first class. That is too bad.
Out of about 30 flights I have taken my children on, only one did we have a problem. I walked to the back of the plane not because thats where coach was; but because thats where the largest amount of open space was to walk with her and quiet her down. And I always use the restroom as the first choice for a location to calm my daughters which minimizes discomfort to any other passengers.
As far sitting in coach, instead of first class, when I am concerned that my children will be fussy, thats my choice . I do believe that the person who is spending at least twice the price of a coach ticket to sit in first class does have a right to expect a greater level of comfort and quiet. Others are entitled to disagree; but that is my opinion and the choice I am entitled to make.
You also failed to notice that my point was that parents are responsible for keeping their children under control to the extent possible.
I also pointed out that problems with children are not the only issue on flights. Personally, sitting on a flight next to someone who is bitter about others being in first class when they are in coach would, I'm sure, not be an enjoyable experience. I'd also be concerned that is was just one example of their overall rude behavior. When you are sitting next to someone who is able to express their opinions in a mature and positive manner is one thing that makes flights more enjoyable for everyone regardless of what class they are in.
[This message has been edited by FFLASV (edited 03-07-99).]
As you may have noticed, virtually all the other posts on this board express their opinions in a polite manner. It appears that you have a great deal of resentment toward those in first class. That is too bad.
Out of about 30 flights I have taken my children on, only one did we have a problem. I walked to the back of the plane not because thats where coach was; but because thats where the largest amount of open space was to walk with her and quiet her down. And I always use the restroom as the first choice for a location to calm my daughters which minimizes discomfort to any other passengers.
As far sitting in coach, instead of first class, when I am concerned that my children will be fussy, thats my choice . I do believe that the person who is spending at least twice the price of a coach ticket to sit in first class does have a right to expect a greater level of comfort and quiet. Others are entitled to disagree; but that is my opinion and the choice I am entitled to make.
You also failed to notice that my point was that parents are responsible for keeping their children under control to the extent possible.
I also pointed out that problems with children are not the only issue on flights. Personally, sitting on a flight next to someone who is bitter about others being in first class when they are in coach would, I'm sure, not be an enjoyable experience. I'd also be concerned that is was just one example of their overall rude behavior. When you are sitting next to someone who is able to express their opinions in a mature and positive manner is one thing that makes flights more enjoyable for everyone regardless of what class they are in.
[This message has been edited by FFLASV (edited 03-07-99).]
Mar 7, 1999 | 10:06 pm
#26
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT (NYC Suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL
Programs: United Premier 1K, American AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 3,089
seems like a lot of these kids are ending up in first class as the result of travel problems they have incurred. airlines seem to think that throwing disgruntled pax into the front cabin is the perfect resolution of a customer service problem. the companies should be more diligent about allowing ground staff to do this on an indiscriminate basis. most young parents today do not control their kids in public. whether it is paid for, or awarded, entrance to the first class cabin by frequent flyers is an earned perk. destroying the benefits of that quiet (usually) refuge by turning it into a flying nursery, is wrong, and the airlines should control the situation better.
Mar 8, 1999 | 7:22 am
#27
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 3,069
FFLASV:
I never questioned your right to express an opinion. However, you apparently don't like me expressing mine.
As for politeness, traveltoomusch's "OH MY GOD, ARE ALL OF YOU POMPOUS ARROGANT SNOBS?????" was less polite than my post by far, even though I happen to agree with the sentiment.
As for your defensive response "Out of about 30 flights I have taken my children on, only one did we have a problem. I walked to the back of the plane not because thats where coach was; but because thats where the largest amount of open space was to walk with her and quiet her down. And I always use the restroom as the first choice for a location to calm my daughters which minimizes discomfort to any other passengers", if you only had a problem once in 30 flights, you never would have had occasion to use the bathroom as your first choice. Also, you may be correct, but it's kind of amusing to hear "coach" mentioned in the same sentence as "largest amount of open space".
I have absolutely no resentment of first class. In fact, I enjoy it as often as I can. What I do resent is the opinion that being fortunate enough to be able to pay more than twice the coach fare means that you "have a right to expect a greater level of comfort and quiet" (but you have every right to hold and express that opinion). Some of the first class passengers have paid for extra comfort (and perhaps quiet), but it's not a right. If other passengers, including babies, have also paid for extra comfort and are annoying their fellow passengers, that is unfortunate. But it hardly gives anyone the right to shift that annoyance to the coach class cabin.
I never questioned your right to express an opinion. However, you apparently don't like me expressing mine.
As for politeness, traveltoomusch's "OH MY GOD, ARE ALL OF YOU POMPOUS ARROGANT SNOBS?????" was less polite than my post by far, even though I happen to agree with the sentiment.
As for your defensive response "Out of about 30 flights I have taken my children on, only one did we have a problem. I walked to the back of the plane not because thats where coach was; but because thats where the largest amount of open space was to walk with her and quiet her down. And I always use the restroom as the first choice for a location to calm my daughters which minimizes discomfort to any other passengers", if you only had a problem once in 30 flights, you never would have had occasion to use the bathroom as your first choice. Also, you may be correct, but it's kind of amusing to hear "coach" mentioned in the same sentence as "largest amount of open space".
I have absolutely no resentment of first class. In fact, I enjoy it as often as I can. What I do resent is the opinion that being fortunate enough to be able to pay more than twice the coach fare means that you "have a right to expect a greater level of comfort and quiet" (but you have every right to hold and express that opinion). Some of the first class passengers have paid for extra comfort (and perhaps quiet), but it's not a right. If other passengers, including babies, have also paid for extra comfort and are annoying their fellow passengers, that is unfortunate. But it hardly gives anyone the right to shift that annoyance to the coach class cabin.
Mar 8, 1999 | 6:04 pm
#28
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Maryland
Programs: UA MM Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 23,764
My two cents on this subject is to echo others on the subject of noisy, obnoxious passenger as primarily being of the adult persuasion. My biggest pet peeve is people who use my seat to pull themselves in and out of their seats (like today). Most of the children on my flights usually calm down relatively quickly and are no problem. Once in a a while you get the one who is very scared and takes more time to quiet down.
OMNI to CATMAN: For an adult version of Chuck E Cheese try Dave and Busters. Not sure where in one is in Jersey but a big one is down the road from you in Philly just off I95.
OMNI to CATMAN: For an adult version of Chuck E Cheese try Dave and Busters. Not sure where in one is in Jersey but a big one is down the road from you in Philly just off I95.
Mar 8, 1999 | 6:18 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Chicago, IL (ORD)
Programs: AA Gold, UA Premier Exec, Starwood Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 1,100
JeffS:
To continue OMNI:
Dave & Buster's is GREAT! In Chicago, we're fortunate enough to have 2 in the area, 1 near Downtown and 1 in the far 'burbs. It's one of my favorite places (even though I don't get there much). Just imagine a Dave & Buster's flight...ummmmm!
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Regards,
- Anna
To continue OMNI:
Dave & Buster's is GREAT! In Chicago, we're fortunate enough to have 2 in the area, 1 near Downtown and 1 in the far 'burbs. It's one of my favorite places (even though I don't get there much). Just imagine a Dave & Buster's flight...ummmmm!
------------------
Regards,
- Anna
Mar 8, 1999 | 10:04 pm
#30
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CNF/LAX/HKG/PVG
Programs: AA EXP, Lifetime PLT, Silver EK Skywards
Posts: 748
...and more Omni. (and geek alert)
Dave & Buster's is really cool. I actually collected enough tickets to redeem mugs (and other D&B quality merchandise) from Hollywood, FL, Bethesda, MD, Ontario, CA and Irvine, CA. Everytime I go somewhere and I get bored in my hotel room I head out to D&B. Nothing like having a beer while shooting some bad aliens...
A Dave & Busters airline would be the coolest thing ever.
Dave & Buster's is really cool. I actually collected enough tickets to redeem mugs (and other D&B quality merchandise) from Hollywood, FL, Bethesda, MD, Ontario, CA and Irvine, CA. Everytime I go somewhere and I get bored in my hotel room I head out to D&B. Nothing like having a beer while shooting some bad aliens...
A Dave & Busters airline would be the coolest thing ever.