Are Bloggers Ruining Flyertalk??? - Take 2
Jun 29, 2012, 8:50 pm
#46
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: Curr Noob, Ex Road Warrior
Posts: 492
Blogging is profitable if you can attract readers and if you have followed boarding area you would see the explosion of new bloggers. Only a few have original content and most others recycle the same info. I do think Rick @ FTG has good intentions and wants to help others. Infact I do think other bloggers like FrequentMiler etc fall in to the same category. However each of them also have a business to run. As FTG pointed earlier each of them benefit from these deals as well and they dont want to share all the info to card companies either. From time to time things might slip through and its only natural. I don't think there are any sinister intentions on their part.
As Jeanie mentioned earlier in big companies often one hand (should i say finger) doesn't know what the other hand does and often they work towards opposite goals. The sole aim of a marketing guy is to gain new accounts. Whether those accounts are profitable or not is not his main concern. So don't worry about things getting revealed too much. FT community is a small portion of their overall target audience and deals will keep coming to attract new accounts. The last couple of years have been dreadful for bank profits, so budgets for marketing depts do get cut and so does the beanies for us. But its a cycle and eventually they will go up again before going down. Just be patient.
Whats good for FT community is most likely not good for Card companies. Don't anticipate a card with everything you ask for
.
As Jeanie mentioned earlier in big companies often one hand (should i say finger) doesn't know what the other hand does and often they work towards opposite goals. The sole aim of a marketing guy is to gain new accounts. Whether those accounts are profitable or not is not his main concern. So don't worry about things getting revealed too much. FT community is a small portion of their overall target audience and deals will keep coming to attract new accounts. The last couple of years have been dreadful for bank profits, so budgets for marketing depts do get cut and so does the beanies for us. But its a cycle and eventually they will go up again before going down. Just be patient.
Whats good for FT community is most likely not good for Card companies. Don't anticipate a card with everything you ask for
.
Jun 29, 2012, 8:52 pm
#47
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 73
Are Bloggers Ruining Flyertalk??? - Take 2
Are all blog readers FTers? Are they all 'gamers'? I think not. It could be that a significant proportion of blog readers use the referral links but don't game the system significantly.
Card issuers either know blog readers are a risk, or they know blog readers, by and large, turn into the type of customers they want. Or it could be that card issues just don't care what blog readers do. They may trust their own systems to weed out gamers.
Either way, the bloggers don't deserve venom. Not much is changing here. If you were gaming, you will keep gaming.
Card issuers either know blog readers are a risk, or they know blog readers, by and large, turn into the type of customers they want. Or it could be that card issues just don't care what blog readers do. They may trust their own systems to weed out gamers.
Either way, the bloggers don't deserve venom. Not much is changing here. If you were gaming, you will keep gaming.
Jun 29, 2012, 10:27 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
To think I would be stupid enough to bring up churning of cards that don't profit the card companies. Many of you seem to forget, I Play this Game Too. Why in the world would I want to highlight "churning" Makes no sense.
And as far as an earlier comment that I'm in Citi's pocket, that as nuts. I call them as I see them. Sapphire Preferred and SPG are best. Ba card is really a 50K offer for most of us. The only Citi card I promote is the forward card for restaurant spend and I have had the two browser trick in my private emails to readers since it started. I flatly told Citi if they want me to promote their cards they needed to improve their offers by bumping the sign up bonuses.
Our visits are not always pleasant for the card companies.
As hard as it seems for some of you to believe there was not a blogger there not trying to get better offers for all of us. We want better offers same as you do. Dan H put it perfectly as always. You Win, Bank Wins and Bloggers Win. They have an acquisition budget for new card holders. Do some of you actually think we would tell them to lower an offer as they are being too generous? They spend the money on promos based on what we think will move the needle. And as far as I know, we always want more, not less. And if they are low, we tell them
And as far as an earlier comment that I'm in Citi's pocket, that as nuts. I call them as I see them. Sapphire Preferred and SPG are best. Ba card is really a 50K offer for most of us. The only Citi card I promote is the forward card for restaurant spend and I have had the two browser trick in my private emails to readers since it started. I flatly told Citi if they want me to promote their cards they needed to improve their offers by bumping the sign up bonuses.
Our visits are not always pleasant for the card companies.
As hard as it seems for some of you to believe there was not a blogger there not trying to get better offers for all of us. We want better offers same as you do. Dan H put it perfectly as always. You Win, Bank Wins and Bloggers Win. They have an acquisition budget for new card holders. Do some of you actually think we would tell them to lower an offer as they are being too generous? They spend the money on promos based on what we think will move the needle. And as far as I know, we always want more, not less. And if they are low, we tell them
Would it have been that risky to ask "I've had readers report that you are (shutting down accounts) (demanding copies of tax returns). Could you outline what customer actions trigger these extreme reactions? I think most of my readers want to play within the rules and to help them do that, I want to let them know what the rules are."
Maybe we'd know if it is mostly too many apps or which of the other plays ruffle their feathers. Don't be greedy, we've heard. How do they define greedy?
Missed opportunity, lessons learned. Onward ever.
Last edited by Mountain Trader; Jun 29, 2012 at 10:52 pm
Jun 29, 2012, 11:28 pm
#49
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Programs: AA, DL, AK, UN, CN
Posts: 967
I question the idea that the credit cards companies (CCCs) don't make money on us churners.
The CCC's need customers with very good credit to balance out their risk portfolio.
I don't know their ratios, but for each 700+ credit score lets say they can have 3 high-risk customers. These high risk customers are where they make their money, with 20% interest rates and the like.
That is the real reason for all the bonuses.
Take Chase, do they really care if you're churning? If they did, they'd stop it. They just want you to keep your low-risk $20k of credit in their system so they can farm out the credit to other more profitable (high risk) customers.
The CCC's need customers with very good credit to balance out their risk portfolio.
I don't know their ratios, but for each 700+ credit score lets say they can have 3 high-risk customers. These high risk customers are where they make their money, with 20% interest rates and the like.
That is the real reason for all the bonuses.
Take Chase, do they really care if you're churning? If they did, they'd stop it. They just want you to keep your low-risk $20k of credit in their system so they can farm out the credit to other more profitable (high risk) customers.
Jun 30, 2012, 4:33 am
#50
formerly known as Frugal Travel Guy
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Greenville, SC
Programs: UA Gold, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 1,925
The previous thread was closed for going too far down the road of blogger bashing and had nothing "Buzz Worthy" to continue. This thread may need closure as well if it goes the same way, but I think there might be some interest in the insight provided by Dan and Rick in their responses so we'll see where this goes.
I'm not sure how the conversation developed and I find it hard to believe there was anything sinister involved, but I'd be interested to know more. Rick, can you comment any further on the discussion that took place re: expired links?
I'm not sure how the conversation developed and I find it hard to believe there was anything sinister involved, but I'd be interested to know more. Rick, can you comment any further on the discussion that took place re: expired links?
Btw: this is not a new discussion with citi. it has been going on for three years now and I expect it may take three more before they figure it out. as somebody else pointed out up thread, in large corps one department has no idea what the other is doing.
Last edited by ingy; Jun 30, 2012 at 4:38 am
Jun 30, 2012, 4:50 am
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: UA Million Miler (lite). NY Metro area.
Posts: 15,079
Since I can't figure out if you're serious or not, I'll answer your question. FTG is owned by Internet Brands. And just in case some readers don't know, Internet Brands owns Flyertalk.
I for one enjoy reading the analysis that each blogger brings to the table. They all have a different take on things. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to reduce my credit score by a point or 2.
I for one enjoy reading the analysis that each blogger brings to the table. They all have a different take on things. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to reduce my credit score by a point or 2.
Jun 30, 2012, 5:05 am
#52
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
All true but not to my point. As if they don't know about churning?
Would it have been that risky to ask "I've had readers report that you are (shutting down accounts) (demanding copies of tax returns). Could you outline what customer actions trigger these extreme reactions? I think most of my readers want to play within the rules and to help them do that, I want to let them know what the rules are."
Maybe we'd know if it is mostly too many apps or which of the other plays ruffle their feathers. Don't be greedy, we've heard. How do they define greedy?
Missed opportunity, lessons learned. Onward ever.
Would it have been that risky to ask "I've had readers report that you are (shutting down accounts) (demanding copies of tax returns). Could you outline what customer actions trigger these extreme reactions? I think most of my readers want to play within the rules and to help them do that, I want to let them know what the rules are."
Maybe we'd know if it is mostly too many apps or which of the other plays ruffle their feathers. Don't be greedy, we've heard. How do they define greedy?
Missed opportunity, lessons learned. Onward ever.
With being granted a chance to speak directly with the CC companies - if bloggers would bring to the discussion these sorts of things...that would be very beneficial to the community. It doesn't sound like the recent interactions provided anything more than obvious information to or from the banks.
Maybe the banks won't answer directly, maybe their marketing hacks who interface with the bloggers don't care...but at least let them know that these stories are more widely known nowadays and can dissuade people from becoming longterm customers that they supposedly want more.
Last edited by 84fiero; Jun 30, 2012 at 5:06 am Reason: typo
Jun 30, 2012, 8:56 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Intermountain West
Programs: Too many to list
Posts: 12,082
I would have liked to see the bloggers that met with the banks solicit questions from their readers, for the bankers, a few days BEFORE the event.
Discussing expired links to CC offers was a big no-no IMHO.
Many of us have profited from them.
Discussing expired links to CC offers was a big no-no IMHO.
Many of us have profited from them.
Jun 30, 2012, 9:17 am
#54
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New York
Programs: Amex MR, UR, AA, UA
Posts: 9
You could argue they already know some of the questions from the comments on their blog posts or reading FT, but do agree it would be worth it to solicit questions directly
Jun 30, 2012, 9:49 am
#55
formerly known as Frugal Travel Guy
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Greenville, SC
Programs: UA Gold, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 1,925
And I just got approved for a Citi two browser trick myyself. Called status line when I got home from NYC
Since I can't figure out if you're serious or not, I'll answer your question. FTG is owned by Internet Brands. And just in case some readers don't know, Internet Brands owns Flyertalk.
I for one enjoy reading the analysis that each blogger brings to the table. They all have a different take on things. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to reduce my credit score by a point or 2.
I for one enjoy reading the analysis that each blogger brings to the table. They all have a different take on things. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to reduce my credit score by a point or 2.
Last edited by mia; Jun 30, 2012 at 10:24 am
Jun 30, 2012, 1:16 pm
#56
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas City, MO
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 3,648
question for FTG
At your meeting with Citi, did you mention to them that one reason people may not be applying for their AA cards and are dropping them is the lack of premium cabin award seats on AA metal for international destinations? When my Citi cards come up for annual fees, I plan to cancel them for this reason. I am applying for, getting, and using Chase products because of Ultimate Rewards/UA affiliations and more award seats. I am a very heavy spender on credit cards and used to put all spending exclusively on AA Citi cards, but not anymore. My Citi card usage has been highly profitable to them. Now it will be profitable to Chase.
Jun 30, 2012, 3:18 pm
#57
formerly known as Frugal Travel Guy
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Greenville, SC
Programs: UA Gold, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 1,925
At your meeting with Citi, did you mention to them that one reason people may not be applying for their AA cards and are dropping them is the lack of premium cabin award seats on AA metal for international destinations? When my Citi cards come up for annual fees, I plan to cancel them for this reason. I am applying for, getting, and using Chase products because of Ultimate Rewards/UA affiliations and more award seats. I am a very heavy spender on credit cards and used to put all spending exclusively on AA Citi cards, but not anymore. My Citi card usage has been highly profitable to them. Now it will be profitable to Chase.
Jun 30, 2012, 5:42 pm
#58
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ORD
Posts: 986
Completely agree. If you are trying to represent us. . .represent us. If you're going to hose us, you might at least not want to mention you are doing so.
Jun 30, 2012, 5:58 pm
#59
formerly known as Frugal Travel Guy
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Greenville, SC
Programs: UA Gold, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 1,925
Jun 30, 2012, 6:06 pm
#60
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
A blogger, while this term is somewhat ill-defined, isn't quite a journalist yet many bloggers write as well as some of the best journalists and perform quasi journalist-like functions. And while you wouldn't expect a journalist to represent readers in a PR meeting like this, bloggers and journalists can voice reader concerns.
Despite the fact that I have access to many of the same corporate and PR resources that the bloggers being discussed here have, I don't really spend that much time covering cards and miles and points in what I do (I've zoomed in on a few things that I've tried personally such as Amex Platinum benefits and the JP Morgan Palladium card but it's not really my beat) - so I do read some of their blogs from time to time and I find them valuable and generally well written. I also learn a lot from members here on FT for that matter.
No one can be all things to all people and expecting anyone to fulfill this expectation is going to be disappointed in certain respects.