PatMike

1. Because the zillions of cards do NOT have small bonuses if you redeem judiciously.
2. Because we want it all.
3. Because we can.

As AlohaDaveKennedy said, "Kaboom!"

dmora

The problem I have is that I have one credit card (Lufthansa Miles and More) and its limit is $2800.

But i can max it and pay it off every month with living expenses. (groceries, utilities,day2day, rent.)

dmora

Thats kind of my point too... I refuse to stay in nice western brand chain hotels. I love hostels and backpacking. I love sleeping 8+ in a room. Its not luxury, but its definitely a story to tell... Like that time in Istanbul, with a 10-share bed room, myself, an older Brit guy, and 8 giggling 20something Japanese girls...

dmora

dmora

so what i've learned from reading all this, is that I wont be able to do any churning, since i cant meet spending requirements, and I have terrible credit.

crimson12

I think it's Frugal Travel Guy that says on his blog "Your credit is your most important asset". My wife and I only do this because (and would only do this so long as) we have credit scores in the high 700s, and I suspect most people on this board are the same.

You aren't totally shut out; Capital One is a subprime credit card, and you might find some opportunities there, and maybe you can find a card with a very low spending requirement ($500/3 months, or something). But yes, for the most part, if you can't meet spending requirements and you don't have the credit, you should focus on those things first and points/miles a distant second.

Well I didn't say sleeping 10 in a room. But I stayed at a nice, smallish independent hotel in Nepal, for example. There was also a Hyatt nearby, but I much preferred the smaller hotel. I know there are a few alliances (Small Luxury Hotels of the World, etc.) but I don't think they have any credit card/rewards program. Pity.

dmora

thanks for the tip ^

I also about your trip to Nepal, like the idea of supporting local business vs the big chains.

sdsearch

Be very careful asking where points can be used. That's the fallacy of lots of TV ads about points. "Oh, you got a weather balloon points?" "You got a trip Hawaii during the holidays on points?"

You can get anything points, as long as you're willing to pay a ridiculously bad rate of return (about equivalent to 1% cashback or even worse). But if that's the case, why not just get 1% cashback and be done with it?

The only reason that miles for airline seats and points for hotel stays in the hotels that the program covers can be much better values than "cashback equivalent" is because they're giving away "excess capacity".

Many hotel programs today (including Priority Club) have two ways of redeeming today: One, the traditional high-value way of hotels within the points program itself. Two, an "any hotel anywhere" feature which is a comparatively very poor value, because it devolves back to the same rate as redeeming for gift cards. The reason: The points program has no access to "excess capacity" at hotels that it has nothing to do with it, so it has to "buy" the hotel rooms on the open market, just like you would, and has to pay the same prices you woud. So all it's doing in those "any hotel anywhere" features is taking the money it would use if you redeemed for a gift card, and intsead spending it (on your behalf) at some third-party booking engine that they've contracted with.

So if you have access to decent cashback card, I would not recommend getting a hotel points card just to use those low-value "any hotel anywhere" features.

If you really want less cookie cutter hotels, research which programs actually have hotels like that. All Best Western hotels are independently owned and operated, and some are very non-cookie-cutter. (But because of this "indepednely owned and operated" factor, there's also way less consistency than, say, with Hyatt, and so you have to research each hotel individually, not just rely on the name brand for consisent standards.)

Choice has (as a tiny fraction of its hotels) its Ascend Collection, which is probably the kinds of non-cookie-cutter hotels you're talking about. But you'll only find them (at least so far) in a small handful of areas.

But you might want to consider this strategy: When visiting a place where the kind of hotel you like best is "affordable" (whatever that means to you), just pay normal money for it. When visiting a place where no place you'd like to stay is affordable, then use hotel points (for hotels within the program itself) to get the best value for them.

sdsearch

You seem to mean hotel cards by the "zillions" of cards, and there "redeem judiciously" is indeed applicable.

But I wasn't referring that or to you. I was referring to several posts in this thread which had oodles of apps for Chase Freedom, Citi ThankYou, and other such "cashback equivalent" cards, where there is no "redeem judiciously" alternative, because everything you redeem for is at the same "cashback equivalent" rate.

And "can" isn't always true. For every post indicating a successful churn, there's another post indicating someone just got rejected. A big churn may seem to work, but may lock out the ability to apply for a great deal (from the bank where you already maxed out your 6 apps a year or whatever) that comes around a month later. Some programs have a "once in a lifetime" or at least "once every few years" limit, and if you apply for "everything" because you "can" and you apply for the 30k version and half a year later the 70k version comes out, sorry, you're out of luck. If you only apply when the deal seems really good, you may end up getting more than if you apply as fast as you can for everything that's available at some arbitrary time.

Also, forgetting the general issue of credit score, which I agree is overblown, there are banks that turn you down because you had too many inquiries in the last x months, banks that turn you down because you have opened too many cards with them in the last y months, etc. Doing a churn that requires a dozen cards is therefore IMHO riskier than "judiciously" applying for one or two cards that get you about the same return (through higher value redemptions).

sdsearch

Choice lets you redeem (but not earn) at Preferred hotels, who don't have their own rewards program. Preferred is a luxury group of independent hotels, but I'm not sure if they're smaller. But they may indeed be "less cookie-cutter".

Having said that (and my mention of Choice's Ascend Collection in another post): The Choice credit card doesn't earn very fast. What earns fast is staying in cheap suburban Choice hotels in the US when they run their frequent "stay two times and gets zilllions of points" promos. (Compared to that, earning Choice points through their credit card is snail's pace.)

Therein lies the dilemma. Even when there are less cookie-cutter hotels, they tend to be in programs where the credit card earning is poor. The credit card earning tends to be best in those hotel programs that are very cookie-cutter.

RedRiver

I wouldn't lump the Chase Freedom card in with the rest of the cashback cards. As long as you pair it with the Sapphire Preffered or the Ink Bold card, it makes the Ultimate Rewards program much more lucrative if you leverage the the quarterly 5% categories.

timzheng

I think this is very important insight into this game.

andysiz

+1. The Freedom Card is one of my "to keep" cards because:

1) With Sapphire Preferred (another one of my "to keep" cards), I can transfer instantly my Freedom UR points to the SP UR account to transfer to any partner;

2) With Chase checking, I get 10-points per transaction on Freedom + 10% points, on top of the 5% rotating categories (I only plan to use Freedom for the max 5% categories);

3) It has no annual fee;

4) Current signup bonus of 30,000 UR points at $500 spent.

I will get way more on this card over the course of the next couple of years just spending up to $1,500 per quarter (on the 5% cats) than on the 1-time bonuses on other cards. This is definitely a long-term card.

sdsearch

I agree, if that's how you're going to use it.

I was referring, however, to some posts earlier in this thread, where Chase Freedom was the only Chase card on the list, but it was also filled with other "cashback equivalent" cards with Citi ThankYou, Discover, Cap 1, and others (whose names I don't remember offhand), and few if any cards that earn or could transfer to real airline miles or real hotel points. In that context, I think of Chase Freedom as most likely being treated like a cashback equivalent card.

sdsearch

Are you saying that if you make a $1 purhcase that you earn 10 points + either 1 or 5 points (depending on whether it's 5% category or not)? If that were true, I wouldn't care if it were a 5% category, I would go on a shopping rampage at the 99c store, paying for every item on a separate transaction!