Mar 6, 2016, 10:33 pm
Last edit by: stephem
Fare Rules:
Fare basis code AA J PEN-YVR
Fare basis code AA J PEN-YVR
Code:
FLIGHT APPLICATION
BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING AA FLIGHTS 5100 THROUGH 5249.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING AA FLIGHTS 6075 THROUGH 6124.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL VIA EACH TRANSPACIFIC SECTOR BUT NOT ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING AA FLIGHTS 7950 THROUGH 7969.
ADVANCE RES/TICKETING UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
STANDBY NOT PERMITTED.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
NOTE -
TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
RESERVATIONS BOOKED 3 DAYS OR LESS PRIOR TO
DEPARTURE MUST BE TICKETED WITHIN 24 HOURS.
RESERVATIONS BOOKED 24 HOURS OR LESS PRIOR TO
DEPARTURE MUST BE TICKETED WITHIN 3 HOURS.
STOPOVERS
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED NOTE - GENERAL RULE DOES NOT APPLY UNLIMITED STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT.
TRANSFERS UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT
FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
PERMITTED COMBINATIONS FOR ONE WAY FARES
ADD-ONS PERMITTED.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ADJACENT
LINE OF FLIGHT FARE COMPONENTS ONLY. TRAVEL MUST BE VIA
THE POINT OF COMBINATION.
END-ON-END NOTE -
ADD-ONS PERMITTED
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY
RULE IN TARIFF
IPRP - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA PAC
IPRPC - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 VIA PAC
IPRSAAS - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 3 VIA PAC
IPRSAPN - AREA 1-SOUTH WEST PACIFIC VIA PAC AND N.
AMERICA
OR RULE 7100/8005 IN TARIFF
PAMAAR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 3 VIA PAC.
CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH
ANY FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN RULE
7100/8005 IN TARIFF
ATMAAR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 VIA ATL
OR ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRA - BETWEEN USA/CA-AREA 2/3 AND GUAM-AREA 2
IPRAI - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA ATL
IPRP - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA PAC
IPRPC - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 2/3 VIA PAC
IPRSAAS - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 3 VIA PAC
IPRSAA2 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 2 VIA
ATL
IPRSAA3 - BETWEEN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE-AREA 3 VIA
ATL
IPRSAPN - AREA 1-SOUTH WEST PACIFIC VIA PAC AND N.
AMERICA
OR RULE 7100/8005 IN TARIFF
PAMAAR - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 3 VIA PAC.
SURCHARGES BETWEEN CANADA AND MALAYSIA
IF INFANT UNDER 02 WITHOUT A SEAT.
OR - CONTRACT BULK INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT UNDER 02.
OR - MILITARY INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT UNDER 02.
OR - INCLUSIVE TOUR INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT UNDER 02.
A SECURITY SURCHARGE OF HKD 45 PER COUPON WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR DEPARTURE FROM HKG AIRPORT.
NOTE -
THIS SECURITY SURCHARGE APPLIES TO -
1/ INFANTS.
2/ PASSENGERS TRANSFERRING/TRANSITING HONG KONG.
3/ PASSENGERS TRAVELLING ON INDUSTRY/AGENCY
DISCOUNT /ID/AD/ TICKETS.
4/ PASSENGERS HOLDING DIPLOMATIC PASSPORTS.
THE PROVISIONS BELOW APPLY ONLY AS FOLLOWS -
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA OR US.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA OR AY.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA OR BA.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA OR IB.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA OR JL.
OR - TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA OR QF.
THERE IS NO CHARGE PER FARE COMPONENT FOR TRANSPACIFIC
SECTORS.
NOTE -
YR FEE MAY APPLY
AND - AN AIRPORT/TERMINAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 15.00 PER
COUPON WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR
DEPARTURE FROM CANADA.
NOTE -
THIS NAVIGATION SURCHARGE APPLIES TO ADT/CNN
AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
AND - AN AIRPORT/TERMINAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 15.00 PER
COUPON WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR
ARRIVAL IN CANADA.
NOTE -
THIS NAVIGATION SURCHARGE APPLIES TO ADT/CNN
AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
AND - A SECURITY SURCHARGE OF HKD 45 PER COUPON WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR DEPARTURE FROM
HKG AIRPORT.
NOTE -
THIS SECURITY SURCHARGE APPLIES TO -
1/ PASSENGERS TRANSFERRING/TRANSITING HONG KONG.
2/ PASSENGERS TRAVELLING ON INDUSTRY/AGENCY
DISCOUNT /ID/AD/ TICKETS.
3/ PASSENGERS HOLDING DIPLOMATIC PASSPORTS.
AND - ORIGINATING MALAYSIA -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 134.00 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR
TRANSPACIFIC SECTORS.
NOTE -
THIS SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
THIS SURCHARGE WILL NOT APPLY TO PASSENGERS
TRAVELLING ON FREE TICKETS.
AND - AN AIRPORT/TERMINAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 15.00 PER
COUPON WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR
DEPARTURE FROM CANADA.
NOTE -
THIS NAVIGATION SURCHARGE APPLIES TO ADT/CNN
AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
AND - AN AIRPORT/TERMINAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 15.00 PER
COUPON WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR
ARRIVAL IN CANADA.
NOTE -
THIS NAVIGATION SURCHARGE APPLIES TO ADT/CNN
AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
AND - A SECURITY SURCHARGE OF HKD 45 PER COUPON WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR DEPARTURE FROM
HKG AIRPORT.
NOTE -
THIS SECURITY SURCHARGE APPLIES TO -
1/ PASSENGERS TRANSFERRING/TRANSITING HONG KONG.
2/ PASSENGERS TRAVELLING ON INDUSTRY/AGENCY
DISCOUNT /ID/AD/ TICKETS.
3/ PASSENGERS HOLDING DIPLOMATIC PASSPORTS.
SALES RESTRICTIONS UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED BY ELECTRONIC TICKETING.
TICKETS MAY NOT BE SOLD IN VENEZUELA/ARGENTINA.
TICKETS MAY ONLY BE SOLD IN AREA 1/AREA 2/AREA 3.
PENALTIES UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
NOTE -
FOR TRAVEL AGENCY BOOKINGS MADE IN MEXICO / THE
CARIBBEAN / CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA - AA WILL
ASSESS A USD 25.00 FEE ON ANY UNTICKETED
RESERVATION NOT CANCELED BEFORE DEPARTURE.
CHILDREN DISCOUNTS BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3
ORIGINATING AREA 3 -
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS CH
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS CH
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10 PERCENT
OF THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS IN
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-14 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN 5 6 AND 7 YEARS OF AGE WILL
ONLY BE TRANSPORTED OVER THE LINES OF AA NON-STOP
OR THROUGH PLANE SERVICE.
FOR J- TYPE FARES
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS CH.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED IN SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR
OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS CH.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER
OR - 1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10 PERCENT
OF THE FARE.
TICKETING CODE - BASE FARE CODE PLUS IN.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 16 OR OLDER.
NOTE -
WHEN TRAVEL INCLUDES BOTH DOMESTIC AND
INTERNATIONAL SERVICE AND DIFFERENT
INFANT FARES APPLY - THE FARE NEED NOT
BE MORE THAN THE SUM OF THE APPLICABLE
FARES FOR THE DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL
PORTIONS.
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-14 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN 5 6 AND 7 YEARS OF AGE WILL
ONLY BE TRANSPORTED OVER THE LINES OF AA NON-STOP
OR THROUGH PLANE SERVICE.
TOUR CONDUCTOR DISCOUNTS UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
NOTE -
DISCOUNTS APPLY. INFORMATION IS NOT AVAILABLE
AT THIS TIME...CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
THIS RULE DOES NOT APPLY FOR TRAVEL ON OTHER
AIRLINE OPERATED CODE SHARE FLIGHTS.
AGENT DISCOUNTS UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
NOTE -
DISCOUNTS APPLY. INFORMATION IS NOT AVAILABLE
AT THIS TIME. CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
THIS RULE DOES NOT APPLY FOR TRAVEL ON OTHER
AIRLINE OPERATED CODE SHARE FLIGHTS.
ALL OTHER DISCOUNTS UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
THE PROVISIONS BELOW APPLY ONLY AS FOLLOWS -
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AA. SALE IS RESTRICTED TO
SPECIFIC AGENTS.
FARES MAY ONLY BE SOLD BY AA AND MAY NOT BE SOLD BY TRAVEL
AGENTS.
PASSENGER OCCUPYING TWO SEATS. ID REQUIRED - CHARGE 100
PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - SEAT.
NOTE -
APPLICATION---
FARES APPLY TO A PASSENGER PERMITTED THE
EXCLUSIVE USE OF TWO ADJACENT SEATS.
SENIOR CITIZEN 65 OR OLDER. ID REQUIRED - NO DISCOUNT.
NOTE -
RULE 1810 - SENIOR CITIZEN DISCOUNT DOES NOT APPLY
[FARE GONE] J PEN-YVR $1758CDN o/w One World and friends. F option available.
Mar 6, 2016, 10:16 pm
#91
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
I'd never used AA.com before, so lesson learned. I usually use a TA but thought I got all the codes and flights I wanted, what was the downside.... now I know! Indeed these would have just been voided out by a TA since it was well under 24 hours. How silly that AA can't catch such tickets, but instead puts them through the same process as tickets that have long been issued.
Mar 6, 2016, 10:23 pm
#92
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
What stephem was saying applies only when you are booking the ticket before the travel actually begins. After the first segment has been flown, it would no longer be possible to reprice the ticket if all you need is date/time change. The fare rules clearly state there is no restriction regarding stopover.
It sounds like Orbitz fails to catch this, and quite frankly I've found that the airlines themselves usually don't catch it when you call in unless there is something in the request that requires sending to the rate desk. So people will probably get stopovers, maybe not a sure thing though. The rules require a HIP calculation, so there is always the risk you will be required to pay the HIP differential for anything more than 24 hours. I say get it booked via O with a stopover and reduce the risk that you wont be able to get the stopover you want after flying the first segment without a large HIP differential being paid.
Edited to add: Most of these fares will have a statement either that there is a HIP exception for stopovers or that there isnt one. In the absence of an exception, I've always been told HIP applies by default. There is no HIP statement one way or the other in this fare, my guess is that some OTAs may have coded it incorrectly to allow stopovers without HIP calculation. Also, I put the complete fare rules in a wiki for the thread.
Last edited by stephem; Mar 6, 2016 at 10:36 pm
Mar 6, 2016, 11:01 pm
#93
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: YYC, SFO, OAK
Programs: AS MVP 75K, AA Platinum, IHG Platinum, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 734
So if this fare has been around for ~10 years... why are we only finding it now? Does it come and go? Or has it been around continuously since then... and wouldn't tons of people be booking it?
Mar 6, 2016, 11:05 pm
#94
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,669
Does anyone see any problem booking the last segment with a long layover on a different alliance carrier through an OTA? I am not sure if I will take the last flight, skip it or try to change/push it forward.
Mar 6, 2016, 11:15 pm
#95
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,425
No, it doesn't come and go. It has been there the whole time. Just because you are hearing about it now doesn't mean others didn't know about it.
Mar 6, 2016, 11:45 pm
#96
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
My experience in the 2000s was that there were a number of these filed by AA with no expiration date. I've used many of them over the years, but the ones from major cities in SE Asia had all been "used up." My guess is that at some point someone at the airline realizes, oops. PEN, I was right near there living in Singapore for a few years and to be honest in all of my hunting and pecking it never occurred to me to try that. And my guess is that some people know of this fare and have been using it, just it didn't occur to most people to try that city pair. I generally hammered away on city pairs from CMB, KUL, SGN and DAC for my fun back then, but those are all long gone. Generally, I used a long list of west coast US, Canadian and LatAm cities. For some strange reason, the Canadian cities all died last, but often there were some hangers on in LatAm (SJD and GRU on a couple of fares). My uneducated guess is these more obscure north and south destinations were so infrequently used that they weren't really on the radar, and if the end date for the fare is infinity then these things will live on. BTW, if you hunt and peck a bit with PEN, I am sure there are some other interesting fares.
Last edited by stephem; Mar 6, 2016 at 11:53 pm
Mar 7, 2016, 2:07 am
#97
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
It's a bad habit to book directly with airlines, people in this forum should learn to use airlines' website as a last resort, not the first thing they run to. You have far more protections if something goes wrong when booked via a TA than vs. booking with the airline directly.
In my case I have great success booking directly with airlines and with one particular TA. OTAs are a complete pain most of the time, at least for me, if any changes need to be made.
Mar 7, 2016, 8:15 am
#98
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,611
No problem with you plan either way. I'm in the camp at FT that believes in NOT using an OTA, unless you can't get the routing or price you want from booking directly with an airline. An OTA offers no "protection" and just adds another layer of complexity when things go wrong.
Mar 7, 2016, 8:24 am
#99
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,669
No problem with you plan either way. I'm in the camp at FT that believes in NOT using an OTA, unless you can't get the routing or price you want from booking directly with an airline. An OTA offers no "protection" and just adds another layer of complexity when things go wrong.
Mar 7, 2016, 6:31 pm
#101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,093
I've usually found that if the fare rules don't have a HIP exception for stopovers (and this one doesn't), then whether you try to add a stopover at initial ticketing or after you have flown a segment, you will get hit with the HIP fare, as long as the agent you are working with knows how to read fare rules. It doesn't matter that the stopover provision says the fare allows stopovers, that just means it can be done, but doesn't mean there will be no additional fare collection if you do add one (such as for HIP).
It sounds like Orbitz fails to catch this, and quite frankly I've found that the airlines themselves usually don't catch it when you call in unless there is something in the request that requires sending to the rate desk. So people will probably get stopovers, maybe not a sure thing though. The rules require a HIP calculation, so there is always the risk you will be required to pay the HIP differential for anything more than 24 hours. I say get it booked via O with a stopover and reduce the risk that you wont be able to get the stopover you want after flying the first segment without a large HIP differential being paid.
My experience in the 2000s was that there were a number of these filed by AA with no expiration date. I've used many of them over the years, but the ones from major cities in SE Asia had all been "used up." My guess is that at some point someone at the airline realizes, oops. PEN, I was right near there living in Singapore for a few years and to be honest in all of my hunting and pecking it never occurred to me to try that.
If one just blindly choose whatever OTA/TA come to mind, sure. Not all airlines are born equal, neither are TA, whether online or otherwise.
Mar 7, 2016, 8:34 pm
#102
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,669
My experience in the 2000s was that there were a number of these filed by AA with no expiration date. I've used many of them over the years, but the ones from major cities in SE Asia had all been "used up." My guess is that at some point someone at the airline realizes, oops. PEN, I was right near there living in Singapore for a few years and to be honest in all of my hunting and pecking it never occurred to me to try that. And my guess is that some people know of this fare and have been using it, just it didn't occur to most people to try that city pair. I generally hammered away on city pairs from CMB, KUL, SGN and DAC for my fun back then, but those are all long gone. Generally, I used a long list of west coast US, Canadian and LatAm cities. For some strange reason, the Canadian cities all died last, but often there were some hangers on in LatAm (SJD and GRU on a couple of fares). My uneducated guess is these more obscure north and south destinations were so infrequently used that they weren't really on the radar, and if the end date for the fare is infinity then these things will live on. BTW, if you hunt and peck a bit with PEN, I am sure there are some other interesting fares.
Mar 7, 2016, 9:14 pm
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,669
Thanks for everyone's input. The more I think about this the more I think we should perhaps be booking several of these. For the next few months each of these one ways can bring in 50k RDMs (for an EXP choosing the right flights), 30kEQMs, and 1 SWU, while for next year they are worth 15k rdms (for an EXP), 30k eqms, and 1 SWU. Yet, if you want to maximize these you should be booking them as roundtrips, to minimize positioning costs. So this is getting complex.
Are you guys booking these as roundtrips or one ways mostly?
Based on my quite conservative math (for EXPs), 50k rdms and 1 SWU are worth $500+$500= $1,000, so for every $1650 or $1300 spent, we get at least $1,000 worth of product back.
Are you guys booking these as roundtrips or one ways mostly?
Based on my quite conservative math (for EXPs), 50k rdms and 1 SWU are worth $500+$500= $1,000, so for every $1650 or $1300 spent, we get at least $1,000 worth of product back.
Last edited by nk15; Mar 7, 2016 at 9:46 pm
Mar 7, 2016, 9:53 pm
#104
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: YYC, SFO, OAK
Programs: AS MVP 75K, AA Platinum, IHG Platinum, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 734
Doing them purely as mileage runs... as you've calculated, the value of product I'd get back isn't worth the money invested (you value SWUs more/RDMs less than I do, but it all washes out), although I do just love flying for the sake of flying. It's tempting.
Mar 7, 2016, 10:13 pm
#105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,669
I'd buy several round trips if I could... my problem is having a lot of RDMs in the bank to spend this year, and all my vacation time is already accounted for by the award trips I have booked. It's either burn RDMs pre-devaluation or do these cheap-ish revenue fares.
Doing them purely as mileage runs... as you've calculated, the value of product I'd get back isn't worth the money invested (you value SWUs more/RDMs less than I do, but it all washes out), although I do just love flying for the sake of flying. It's tempting.
Doing them purely as mileage runs... as you've calculated, the value of product I'd get back isn't worth the money invested (you value SWUs more/RDMs less than I do, but it all washes out), although I do just love flying for the sake of flying. It's tempting.
I think the strategy for the PEN fare could be to also explore the region using it as a basis for repeat trips (SIN, BKK, HAN, etc), and not only as an MR and just flying for the sake of it.