(Gone) HA: ICN-HNL-LAS/PHX/PDX/etc C class 699 USD RT
Aug 13, 2010, 6:28 am
#721
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Programs: AA LT Plat, UA LT Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 956
Had to give up the good fight, good luck to the rest of you.
My travel plans had changed and I was no longer able to fly the booked itinerary, so I decided to take the vouchers and call it a day. Got them to extend the expiration date to Dec 31/2011. Unfortunately, I'm out ~$25 or so/ticket as I booked the tickets on a Canadian CC and the CDN$ has gone up in the past few weeks. The girl at the "dedicated line" couldn't up the voucher to compensate for the difference, but suggested I email the HA Advocate using the webform and see how it goes.
My travel plans had changed and I was no longer able to fly the booked itinerary, so I decided to take the vouchers and call it a day. Got them to extend the expiration date to Dec 31/2011. Unfortunately, I'm out ~$25 or so/ticket as I booked the tickets on a Canadian CC and the CDN$ has gone up in the past few weeks. The girl at the "dedicated line" couldn't up the voucher to compensate for the difference, but suggested I email the HA Advocate using the webform and see how it goes.
Aug 13, 2010, 6:36 am
#722
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan/Hilton Gold/Marriott Bonvoy Titanium/Accor/Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 5,899
I think that's pushing your luck. You technically booked a seat on a Hawaiian Airlines flight, although it's code-shared on Korean metal. The fact that KE's hard product is superior is a bonus, but not worthy or eligible for compensation. Hopefully the flood of DOT claims will mandate that HA honor the original bookings and respect their contractual obligations.
Aug 13, 2010, 7:49 am
#723
Join Date: Mar 2006
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K, F9 Elite, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,319
I think that's pushing your luck. You technically booked a seat on a Hawaiian Airlines flight, although it's code-shared on Korean metal. The fact that KE's hard product is superior is a bonus, but not worthy or eligible for compensation. Hopefully the flood of DOT claims will mandate that HA honor the original bookings and respect their contractual obligations.
In my DOT and BBB letters I explained that once a codeshare is booked, the operating carrier would have to either have a major schedule change (i.e. significant time change) or cancel it's flight/codeshare relationship altogether in order for the marketing carrier to make any unilateral decisions and move the pax to it's own operating flight.
You need to understand that Hawaiian can not make any changes to the booked codeshare flights without notifying the pax, due to the full disclosure requirements of codeshare handling. It is more complex than this, but at the core level you booked Korean, Hawaiian disclosed you were booking Korean, and therefore Hawaiian must have you fly on Korean unless there is a major schedule change on KE's side.
That being said, none of my flights have changed, class or otherwise yet.
Aug 13, 2010, 9:09 am
#724
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: HY
Programs: AA-EXP (3.3MM), AAirpass, SQ-PPS Solitaire, DL-PM (.777MM), SPG-Plat, HH-D
Posts: 2,307
Im still waiting on HA to do the right thing and give in to my demands. DOT got back to me and I replied, but DOT can't do much for me and frankly only alerted DOT to piss off HA.
If by christmas time I do not have a resolution completely in my favor HA will be taken to task and after consulting with my local (and friendly) AG the host of issues HA will contend with will be very expensive. Do not give in for measly vouchers or useless options.ETA: My itinerary has not changed one iota on ha.com
Last edited by psyflyer; Aug 13, 2010 at 9:16 am
Aug 13, 2010, 10:29 pm
#725
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*P, SPG
Posts: 290
Aug 13, 2010, 11:00 pm
#726
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
Programs: QFF Gold, SQ Krisflyer
Posts: 299
My trip is late Dec. The additional sector HA had added to my itinerary, as seen in Manage My Trip, is deleted now. That sector preceded the first sector ICN-HNL. This may have occurred as a result of my fax to HA this week.
Aug 13, 2010, 11:44 pm
#727
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 836
O, what did you fax? So you mean they changed your itinerary back to normal?
Aug 13, 2010, 11:48 pm
#728
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
Programs: QFF Gold, SQ Krisflyer
Posts: 299
Yep. Back to what it was...the first itinerary read First for all sectors. Then it changed to Business for ICN-HNL vv. Now these sectors are reading First again. The HNL-LAS vv have been First all along. The extra sector to prevent me travelling is now removed.
^
Aug 14, 2010, 2:58 am
#731
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NRT/PDX
Programs: Willamette Valley Cropdusters Silver Elite, National Tent Frequent Stay program, Ed's Rent-a-tractor
Posts: 3,357
Aug 14, 2010, 6:13 pm
#732
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
demand letter.
While I am no expert in drafting demand letters, I have drafted the outline of one that you can use to try and keep your ticket as issued. It is generic as written. The idea is that you mail it by certified mail to the CEO and the airlines agent of process either in the state purchased or in the state where the airline's HQ is.
VIA E-mail and Certified Mail Return Receipt requested, VIA agent of process and CEO
XYZ Airlines
<address line 1>
<address line 2>
Dear Mr. J CEO,
On <Date>, I offered through <website> $111.11 for SEA-SEA-SEA in F/J/Y class. Your airline/website accepted my offer and issued ticket number 999123456789. On <date> I received notice that your company was refusing to honor the contract we established on the date you accepted my funds.
This is not acceptable.
As your website solicited offers for $111.11 and accepted offers for that price, your organization is bound to the terms of the contract. The fact that your organization may or may not have made a unilateral mistake in soliciting offers for that itinerary and price is irrelevant. Unilateral mistake is not a defense to breach of contract.
As of <post date> my only demand is that you honor ticket as originally sold. If you proceed in making material changes to the ticket including, but not limited to: changes to dates, changes of operating carriers, changes to city pairs, changes to fare classes as originally booked, and/or changes to class of service as originally booked; the following shall happen.
1. I will file complaints with the DOT, FTC, and the State AG’s office for deceptive trade practices.
2. I will book a new ticket in the originally issued class of service between the original origin and arrival cities on the same dates as ticket number 999123456789.
3. I will seek compensation from your organization in a court of law that will make me whole, which will include a refund of the original ticket purchased and the difference between that ticket and the ticket purchased to replace it as well as cover court costs.
You have 10 working days from the receipt of this letter to insure that no changes are or will be made to ticket number 999123456789. If changes have already been made by your organization, then you have the same 10 working days dated from the receipt of this letter to reverse those changes that have you have made.
If you have any questions, you may contact me by phone/e-mail/post at the following number or address, <insert contact info>.
Very truly yours,
Annoyed customer.
I am curious as to your thoughts. I am not a writer by nature so please be gentle.
VIA E-mail and Certified Mail Return Receipt requested, VIA agent of process and CEO
XYZ Airlines
<address line 1>
<address line 2>
Dear Mr. J CEO,
On <Date>, I offered through <website> $111.11 for SEA-SEA-SEA in F/J/Y class. Your airline/website accepted my offer and issued ticket number 999123456789. On <date> I received notice that your company was refusing to honor the contract we established on the date you accepted my funds.
This is not acceptable.
As your website solicited offers for $111.11 and accepted offers for that price, your organization is bound to the terms of the contract. The fact that your organization may or may not have made a unilateral mistake in soliciting offers for that itinerary and price is irrelevant. Unilateral mistake is not a defense to breach of contract.
As of <post date> my only demand is that you honor ticket as originally sold. If you proceed in making material changes to the ticket including, but not limited to: changes to dates, changes of operating carriers, changes to city pairs, changes to fare classes as originally booked, and/or changes to class of service as originally booked; the following shall happen.
1. I will file complaints with the DOT, FTC, and the State AG’s office for deceptive trade practices.
2. I will book a new ticket in the originally issued class of service between the original origin and arrival cities on the same dates as ticket number 999123456789.
3. I will seek compensation from your organization in a court of law that will make me whole, which will include a refund of the original ticket purchased and the difference between that ticket and the ticket purchased to replace it as well as cover court costs.
You have 10 working days from the receipt of this letter to insure that no changes are or will be made to ticket number 999123456789. If changes have already been made by your organization, then you have the same 10 working days dated from the receipt of this letter to reverse those changes that have you have made.
If you have any questions, you may contact me by phone/e-mail/post at the following number or address, <insert contact info>.
Very truly yours,
Annoyed customer.
Aug 14, 2010, 6:47 pm
#733
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Programs: UA Platinum MM; DL Silver; IHG Diamond Ambassador; Hilton Gold; Marriott Gold
Posts: 24,249
While I am no expert in drafting demand letters, I have drafted the outline of one that you can use to try and keep your ticket as issued. It is generic as written. The idea is that you mail it by certified mail to the CEO and the airlines agent of process either in the state purchased or in the state where the airline's HQ is.
I am curious as to your thoughts. I am not a writer by nature so please be gentle.
I am curious as to your thoughts. I am not a writer by nature so please be gentle.
With that said, I think your letter is generally good, with one notable exception. You write: "Unilateral mistake is not a defense to breach of contract." This is not correct.
Unilateral mistake may be a defense to breach of contract. It certainly is in Hawaii. See, e.g., Honda v. Board of Trutees of the Employees' Retirement System of the State of Hawai'i, 108 Hawai'i 212, 218 (2005). With that said, it is not a particularly attractive defense because, among other things, it doesn't apply if the party asserting it fairly bears the risk of the mistake. See id.; see also Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 154 (1979).
Let me put if this way: when defending a client against a breach of contract claim, if our only defense is unilateral mistake, I generally do not consider us to be in a very enviable position.
Aug 14, 2010, 8:07 pm
#734
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Programs: AA LT Plat, UA LT Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 956
I am a lawyer, but I am, of course, not yours, not Hawaiian's, and not anybody else's who may be reading FlyerTalk, unless one of my existing clients coincidentally happens to also be reading this thread.
With that said, I think your letter is generally good, with one notable exception. You write: "Unilateral mistake is not a defense to breach of contract." This is not correct.
Unilateral mistake may be a defense to breach of contract. It certainly is in Hawaii. See, e.g., Honda v. Board of Trutees of the Employees' Retirement System of the State of Hawai'i, 108 Hawai'i 212, 218 (2005). With that said, it is not a particularly attractive defense because, among other things, it doesn't apply if the party asserting it fairly bears the risk of the mistake. See id.; see also Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 154 (1979).
Let me put if this way: when defending a client against a breach of contract claim, if our only defense is unilateral mistake, I generally do not consider us to be in a very enviable position.
With that said, I think your letter is generally good, with one notable exception. You write: "Unilateral mistake is not a defense to breach of contract." This is not correct.
Unilateral mistake may be a defense to breach of contract. It certainly is in Hawaii. See, e.g., Honda v. Board of Trutees of the Employees' Retirement System of the State of Hawai'i, 108 Hawai'i 212, 218 (2005). With that said, it is not a particularly attractive defense because, among other things, it doesn't apply if the party asserting it fairly bears the risk of the mistake. See id.; see also Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 154 (1979).
Let me put if this way: when defending a client against a breach of contract claim, if our only defense is unilateral mistake, I generally do not consider us to be in a very enviable position.