Midwest has always focused on the business traveler. The addition of the MD-80s in the 90s with saver service marked the foray into the liesure market. The 2X2 seating in the 717s was a vestigal carryover from the DC-9s and Midwest catering to the Milwaukee business community.

We'll see how things pan out. I think there is a lot more price-sensitivity so I don't think Midwest will be able to charge the type of fares that it used to.

I stand corrected on the seating....and I learned something. I'm glad I snagged one of those front seats. Thanks!!

Now back to your scheduled topic...

Hi I'm also a newbie to this board and so far enjoy it immensely. I was wondering though if the codeshare between YX and ZK ever took off. I know it had been discussed off and on but is anyone aware if it was ever sealed? I'm asking because maybe MKG could get ZK flights or a stopover again? Any thoughts on this, I don't know how this would work though since MKG isn't subsidized by EAS. Any thoughts? It's still a shame, it would have been nice to eliminate midday flight to MKG and just have the morning and late night flight tagged onto FNT. I guess this won't be happening. Wishful thinking.

I have tried the Midwest number all day to reschedule an mke-las flight Dec 19-21. After not getting through, I went to Mitchell Airport to reschedule face to face. They seemed hesitant to help me and wanted to call the reservations number. After talking to thr agent, she looked up my flight. Midwest changed me from a 9:30 am flight to 7:30 am flight BUT they cannot confirm these changes. They told me I am on the flights but not confirmed. When I asked when I would be confirmed they said they were unsure??

From what I've heard a couple will go back to Boeing...either 2 or 3.

They will have 20 lines of scheduled 717 flying.

Beyond that:

(a) They need an aircraft for an operational spare and scheduled maintenence needs.

(b) It sounds like they will keep two 717's for charter work.

If both (a) and (b) are covered by two aircraft, that means 22 717s stay and thee go back to Boeing.

If (a) and (b) are considered separate missions, then 23 stay and two go back to Boeing.

No official word, however from an internal source who has worked with the charter department they will keep two 717's for ongoing charter work.

I had tickets booked BDL-MKE-BDL over Thanksgiving weekend. It appears from the website that I can only select a refund. However, since the cheapest tickets that are now on sale for those dates is over $600 I might get screwed out of several hundred dollars.

No, the addition of the M80's (beyond the original two M88's leased for California nonstops) was to upsize capacity business markets. The M80s were configured 2x2 for 116 seats and first went to MKE-LGA, then later from Milwaukee to Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, and Washington, plus MCI to DCA and then LGA as well.

Leisure-heavy Phoenix and Orlando were opened as DC9-30 markets, not M80, as were the seasonal flights to TPA, FLL and RSW. They were all in 2x2.

Trouble was, the M80, even in 2x2 seating, was too large for most of the business markets where they were deployed. So the M80's started slowly moving more into leisure markets. After the double-blow of recession and 9/11, business traffic fell and the M80's were mostly moved to high-volume leisure markets. Milwaukee-Las Vegas...Midwest's highest-volume market today at 4x M80...didn't even see its first daytime flight until after 9/11. It had been a 6-days-a-week red-eye flight.

These M80's now moved to leisure markets in 2000 and 2001 were still 116-seat aircraft in 2x2, and they filled pretty well in the high-volume leisure markets. However these leisure markets were low fare, and they lost a great deal of money.

The decision to convert the M80's to 2x3 was significant, the first time that Midwest mainline aircraft would not have the wide 2x2 seating which served Midwest well for their first 19 years. However 2x2 was simply not a moneymaker at the low yields of leisure markets.

As I've said before, Midwest's fare premium is not significantly due to customers choosing to pay a higher fare for Midwest over a competitor. It's about carrying a mix of travelers more heavily weighted towards business traffic.

Midwest's normal proceedure when a city is discontinued is to rebook future reservations on another airline. I see the section you're referring to, where it says you can click to apply for a refund on the web site. However further down it also says this, which does include an option to transfer to another airline:

Reaccomodation Options
If your flight has been affected by the schedule changes, you will have the following options:

--Rebook on a different Midwest Airlines flight, if possible.

--Rebook on another airline, if possible (requires you to call the Reservations center). This option may not be available in many cases as other airlines have limited seats for reaccommodation.

--Use the value of your ticket to purchase a ticket to a different Midwest Airlines destination.

--Receive a full refund.

I think it's worth the effort to call and see...changing to another airline can only be done by an agent. Let us know how it turns out, please.

Stinks, and totally screws up our fall itins (4.5 roundtrips hosed for each of us), but at least we have crack at getting refunds before we have to beg for them as bankruptcy creditors.

Can you say "Aloha", YX? It doesn't just mean hello/goodbye, it's who you'll be joining sometime soon.

Well, maybe they'll rebook us on NW, but I'm not holding my breath .... I pretty much figured these fares were too good to be true when I bought them.

Well, there you are. The Milwaukee hub trashed, fleet reduced, and not a peep out of TPG (NW dosen't have to say anything. The cuts are mostly routes in their backyard). For those of you who have spoken of TPG as though Mother Theresa ran it, welcome to high finance, circa 2008. That these businesses, like Midwest, have people who work for them, or customers who use them, is just an inconvenience. As for my new found friend Knope, hope to see you on another board, with a better outcome. Meantime, knowing the importance you place on keeping good records, you might want to note the new number for Midwest. 1-800-TOAST

O.K, I stand corrected but your historical run-down of the MD-80s at Midwest serves to underscore my point that Midwest has always focused on the business traveler.

Addtion of 2X3 saver-service was incidental to Midwest's catering to the MKE business community.


It remains to be seen whether an attempted return to its business "roots" is viable. There have been a lot of changes in MKE and in the economy since the 1980s/90s.

TPG has to let Tim try to break the pilots/FAs union first. It is interesting though to try to decipher TPGs vision. Are we going to have an airline catering to economy plus service, with low-wage pilots & FAs?

IMO TPG wants to avoid a Chap. 11 filing; it's very public and we'll find out all the facts.

They REFUSE to rebook on NW.

And you can ask for Chairman Tim HOAXsema.............