SPECULATION: Is a Points Devaluation Coming In August?
Apr 16, 2018, 4:22 pm
#16
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,698
Let’s not be like ostriches burying their head in the sand, as we ought to know that Marriott needs to try to make the “loyalty” program operations more profitable for itself and will try to do so at the expense of its customers too. In other words, devaluation for customers in the main.
Good thing as the average "MR elite will earn 20% more points and the average SPG elite 67%" per the doublespeak presentation. Going to need them. But it massively devalued any existing point balances...
Apr 16, 2018, 4:23 pm
#17
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Yes, if I assume everything will be massively devalued, based on nothing, then it's a massive devaluation!!!!
We don't need no stinkin' facts!!!
We don't need no stinkin' facts!!!
Apr 16, 2018, 4:26 pm
#18
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 99
Common sense and logic. Why would Marriott downgrade a hotel that's a cat 8/9 (40/45k in old program) all the way down to a cat 5 (35k) in the new program. Their cat 8/9s are the highest categories they have (outside of RC tiers) so it stands to reason that they will at least be a 6, 7, or even an 8 in the new program.
Apr 16, 2018, 4:32 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,698
Can you point to a single time in history where a program "enhancement" was a net positive to the program as a whole? Usually just a shell game and misdirection, touting the "good" and quietly downplaying the "bad".
Apr 16, 2018, 4:32 pm
#20
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
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And perhaps even a few Design Hotel properties like Gramercy Park Hotel NYC, Kenoa Brazil, etc.
Apr 16, 2018, 4:34 pm
#21
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Based on the details so far revealed about the new combined program, the sky is most definitely not falling. So while I suspect we will see some overall upward creep in award prices when properties are assigned to new categories, I don't see a "massive devaluation" coming. Moreover, the increased elite bonuses (75% vs. 50% for current MR Plats) will help to offset any increase in award rates.
Apr 16, 2018, 4:35 pm
#22
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I wonder what comes of SPG properties that currently require over 35k SPG (St. Regis Bora Bora, St. Regis Maldives, etc.) -- if they become category 8, they become a good deal (even at peak category 8 pricing). And are they category 7 in the interim (which would be a real steal at just 20k SPG)
Apr 16, 2018, 5:02 pm
#24
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For SPGers this is business as usual, indeed the top of the top redemptions fall for a few months pending the introduction of the new top category and seasonal pricing.
For us Marriotteers it’s likely to be a sadder story, though I’m not with the “blink and you’ll see the Times Sq Marquis at 100k per night” sky is falling down types. Like SPG I expect the top category to be reserved for the very top brands but there’s no point in denying it, pressure has been building in New York, London and Paris and they will creep up. Even so I don’t expect to see the Times Sq Marquis hit 100k as a result of this. There’s no doubt though that 3 prices for the same category according to seasonal demands (and who defines that, Marriott for the program or each property for itself?) will make redemption more opaque, but overall with more choices and redeeming on the route less travelled I still see Marriott as being more likely than not worth the effort...
More perspective will be granted us in August. Don’t lets lose it now - though I do think this is a great time to redeem in London, Paris and NYC!
For us Marriotteers it’s likely to be a sadder story, though I’m not with the “blink and you’ll see the Times Sq Marquis at 100k per night” sky is falling down types. Like SPG I expect the top category to be reserved for the very top brands but there’s no point in denying it, pressure has been building in New York, London and Paris and they will creep up. Even so I don’t expect to see the Times Sq Marquis hit 100k as a result of this. There’s no doubt though that 3 prices for the same category according to seasonal demands (and who defines that, Marriott for the program or each property for itself?) will make redemption more opaque, but overall with more choices and redeeming on the route less travelled I still see Marriott as being more likely than not worth the effort...
More perspective will be granted us in August. Don’t lets lose it now - though I do think this is a great time to redeem in London, Paris and NYC!
Apr 16, 2018, 5:02 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,315
Long term, bad.
Some arbitrage to be had on the cat 6 and 7 SPG hotels that aren’t double points.
Some arbitrage to be had on the cat 6 and 7 SPG hotels that aren’t double points.
Apr 16, 2018, 5:08 pm
#26
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Nope. Those are all-suite “limited participation” SPG properties, so they require 2-3x the points based on category. They will end up being 200,000-300,000 points PER NIGHT when redemptions are even available. You usually can’t get into those for less than 60,000 SPG points per night now (with special promos), and usually are 75,000-105,000 points per night now.
"Our new unified Award Chart will offer you more than 6,500 hotels across all 29 participating brands — all with no blackout dates. Redeem for overwater bungalows, former palaces and so much more."
Apr 16, 2018, 5:40 pm
#27
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Program has basically been gutted a la Hilton, but the bloggers continue to focus on a few "enhancements" for the top tier. 45k rooms in London/NYC will now become 100k.
I predict mass attrition from those of us who stay at JW, Westin, etc. to Hyatt. People who like Fairfield & Courtyard will be fine, but nobody is going to spend $$$ to stay at Marriott when they can spend the same $$$ at Hyatt and earn points that can be used for 30k at Park Hyatt Tokyo instead of 100k at Marriott NY.
This also effectively guts the Amex SPG card as each $1 spend is now worth 2 points (formerly 3 points).
Yes, I will be happy to have a few guaranteed suite upgrades, but that's a very small cherry on top of a **** pie.
Goodbye Marriott!!
I predict mass attrition from those of us who stay at JW, Westin, etc. to Hyatt. People who like Fairfield & Courtyard will be fine, but nobody is going to spend $$$ to stay at Marriott when they can spend the same $$$ at Hyatt and earn points that can be used for 30k at Park Hyatt Tokyo instead of 100k at Marriott NY.
This also effectively guts the Amex SPG card as each $1 spend is now worth 2 points (formerly 3 points).
Yes, I will be happy to have a few guaranteed suite upgrades, but that's a very small cherry on top of a **** pie.
Goodbye Marriott!!
Apr 16, 2018, 6:31 pm
#28
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I know they are now but I don't see any special categories carved out above 8 and from the new website they specifically reference bungalows (where else are those in the system other than those two properties):
"Our new unified Award Chart will offer you more than 6,500 hotels across all 29 participating brands — all with no blackout dates. Redeem for overwater bungalows, former palaces and so much more."
"Our new unified Award Chart will offer you more than 6,500 hotels across all 29 participating brands — all with no blackout dates. Redeem for overwater bungalows, former palaces and so much more."
PLEASE NOTE: Free Night Awards at the following locations require higher Starpoint redemption amounts either because the hotel does not have standard rooms or the standard rooms it offers have a mandatory Full Board requirement in peak seasons: St. Regis Resort Bora Bora, and Le Méridien Bora Bora, Bora Bora, French Polynesia; W Maldives, Maldives; Sunset Key Guest Cottages, A Westin Resort, Key West, Florida; Mystique, Santorini, Greece; Pine Cliff Residences, Albuferia, Portugal; and Cala Di Volpe, Hotel Pitrizza, and Hotel Romazzino, Porto Cervo, Italy. The minimum number of Starpoints required for a free night at The Resort at Singer Island, a Category 5 property, ranges from 24,000 to 64,000 Starpoints; the minimum number of Starpoints required for a free night at the Pine Cliff Residences, which is a Category 6 hotel, is 40,000 to 100,000 Starpoints; and the minimum number of Starpoints required for a free night at the other listed properties, which are all Category 7 properties, ranges from 60,000 to 140,000 Starpoints depending on the hotel, its category, its room types, the time of year, and/or its mandatory requirements. Redemptions at these hotels must be booked through your local customer contact center.
Apr 16, 2018, 6:59 pm
#29
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: WAS
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Posts: 1,757
I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that travel packages are going away. In fact, actual reporters indicate the opposite. Do you have a source?
Apr 16, 2018, 7:22 pm
#30
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